The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Question for full preterists

I know that, and Saturday Sabbath keepers say the same thing. Do the Hebraist even believe in Christ? We can argue this ‘til the Lord returns’ and never agree. The bottom line is 70 AD has zero to do with the closing or beginning of an age.

I’ve ALREADY shown that qaz, from the NT, but typically it was ignored and the likes of Al who has no answer to it. And as you can see from his answer has NOT understood your point :neutral_face:

I’ve ALREADY shown that qaz, from the NT, but typically it was ignored and the likes of Al who has no answer to it. And as you can see from his answer has NOT understood your point.

I understand his point - I just don’t agree with it. You’re just having trouble coping.

They make a pill for everything today, even for conditions as bad as yours.

The law was an observance between God and Israel. An Israelite could not leave their home, build a fire, or cause anyone to work. If you did any of those things you were to be put to death.

Romans 14:5-6…
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since she gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Paul said, “For if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” He also said, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” Paul again, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

KJV Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (Mosaic Law)

Mosaic law and the Jewish Sabbath ended at the cross when Christ annulled the law.

Col. 2:14 “by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.“

Yes, the Hebraist aka the writer to the Hebrews as you already noted proves that very thing! Plus what I posted here…

But the reality is, when speaking of prêterism Al claims and asserts but never exegetes that prêterism

Pretty shallow stuff… and when the best someone can do is pillory an opposing position in these types of terms they only show themselves in terms of being able to think, to be a fluffy lightweight.

What a bunch of blasphemous balony. You’re perverting God’s Word and I know it. Doctrines of demons.

They have reading comprehension courses and basic bible courses available for developmentally challenged people today. You may want to inquire.

And… this is why the world doesn’t want anything to do with us. It started about the time of Irenaeus and continues to this day in the same spirit of divisiveness, masquerading as defending the truth… as if the truth even needs defending.

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Well if Asia and Africa are part of the world then Christianity isn’t doing to badly as it is fast growing there even if it is declining in the west. There are 2 billion Christians in the world so the itinerant Jewish preacher didn’t do to badly.

The history is fascinating but the main point is whether the Trinity is biblical plus there is not a uniform Trinitarian belief. Mine is modified in that I think the “Word” and the “Spirit” are divine but originated from Father God at some point in time so He is the source.

That is a good point Qaz and I think Jesus ministry was a transition period into annulling the :“ritual law” but not necessarily the moral law. The Sabbath was part of the ritual law even if it was one of the 10 Commandments.

They very well may have but they also had no idea about his upcoming resurrection or why he had to die.

Ongoing but fading away, maybe with a last living Jewish generation.

They were only the… “last living Jewish generation” relative to those living under the old covenant era, but that era was always destined to end (Gal 3:24-25) with all Israel redeemed and the world reconciled regardless of the fact that many of Jesus’ prophesied “this generation” either dying in the conflict or being deported to Rome never again to see their beloved Temple — to them meaning… the presence of God.

Maybe you should consider “coming across” in a better way?

AndreLinoge to Al-K-Hall

Very true. I tried to join Muslims and visit their house of worship. It’s to learn more about them and how they see things. But they are a closed-door society. This is very true, of Middle Eastern culture. But African Muslims are very friendly. So the African Muslims could at least get me - to consider how they see things. Not so with Middle Eastern Muslims. And Al-K-Hall, brings to mind - how Middle Eastern Muslims behave and act.

image

Just a footnote here. Holy Fools have a “get out of jail free” card. They’re expected to behave, in a bizarre and crazy manner. :crazy_face:

It’s nice to see you have, your own spin on history. But secular and Christian historians, might see it differently.

Let’s play a game called “what’s wrong with this picture” and just focus on your “obsession” with Preterism. And you calling it, the work of Satan.

Here are my problems and concerns:

  • Why is Preterism the work of Satan and NOT the Trinitarian view? It would appear to me, that this is the more pressing threat - to “correct” belief.

  • You haven’t given me an example, of a non-Trinitarian church - teaching “correct” theology. Has Oneness Pentecostal, Christian Science or the Jehovah Witnesses - gotten their theology right? If not, then which non-Trinitarian churches - teaches the correct theology?

  • Why NOT focus on Islam, instead of Preterism? That appears to be, the far greater threat.

  • How do we know when something is attributed to Satan and NOT scientific or natural causes? For example, some here think Mohammad’s visions - were attributed to Satan. But historians point to possible organic disease and psychosis.

  • Why is partial Prerterism objectionable…when they do say, that Christ will return again? Wouldn’t folks in a “conventional” theology, still be subject to a final judgment, heaven, and hell, etc.? See, for example - Rethinking Heaven and Hell: On Preterism, N.T. Wright and the Churches of Christ

Without answers to these questions, your position is to be a:

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I don’t see whether it’s at the cross or during Jesus ministry makes any difference, the point being neither is 70AD. The reason i think it was fading away after the cross was probably to accommodate those still alive and under the Mosaic law.

That too is part of the equation. :+1:

Moving from tribal shamanism to Christianity, where there is food and clothing isn’t much of a choice, or conversion. Besides that, my point went over your head, it would appear.

Even so, you nicely seem to think the majority of Christianity is like the elite heresy hunters. The vast, overwhelming majority of Christians don’t agree with evangelicalism. They have a very set of diverse beliefs, that come under fire from the elite west evangelical leaders. A large number of evenaglical leaders don’t even consider Catholics as Christians. The ones that backpedal and say they are wrong, but concede that they are still Christians, just put their foot in their mouth, ultimately, because it says the right theology doesn’t ultimately matter. If it doesn’t matter, then why obsess about it and throw darts?

I was answering your statement that the world doesn’t want anything to do with us & i pointed out that if Africa and Asia are part of the world then i disagree. Your opinion is that they accept Christianity because of food and clothing & although there are Christian charities i doubt that has more then a tiny impact on worldwide conversions. Your main point i think was that there is to much divisiveness in Christianity & it is a turnoff to the secular world & that i agree with.