The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Questions for "Revival"

Yes, your answer to why you believed was payer and not resisting the holy spirit…

God created angels with the ability to choose too, my friend. Satan was able to persuade 1/3 of the angels to follow him. Amazing… he must be one slick talker. :wink:

No, I said prayer was the reason the blinders were taking off. That prayer was not mine, but probably my aunt’s or some other Christian praying for my salvation.

Got it, thanks for the clarification! :slight_smile:

So… some are never saved because they didn’t have enough prayer said for them? Or none at all? is it then the fault of believers not following the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

Or did they just not make the correct choice? And you did? You didn’t have enough resistance against the Spirit? Yet others do, which is why they are never saved? They have more sin? Is it too much sin to redem them from, then?

This isn’t emotionalism, it’s pure logic based upon fundamental theology. If you carry the logic through you see where it leads. The fact that the results may accord with one’s deepest emotions is irrelevant as far as that goes.

Are not the believers supposed to be in the ministry of reconciliation? Intercessory prayer for the lost is a powerful way for God to move into their life and reveal himself. To ask God to send laborers into the harvest field of their life to preach the gospel of Jesus. To take authority over the devils that are blinding them to the truth? If not you or the body of Christ who will help these people?

I had this conversation with my dad. He was giving me all he had in a debate on this. He’s been to bible school and has been a preacher for many years. He said that whether you get into heaven is based on whether you believe in faith. “But it’s a faith not of ourselves,” I retorted. There was a pause and then he said, “Why you little sneak…” He understood the implications well. There’s just no getting out of it. No opportunity for pride + God being fully just and purely loving = all saved in the end.

Everyone accepts the premises but not all follow through to the unavoidable logical deduction.

Sorry Justin, faith is generated by yourself by hearing the word of God. God created us with the ability to choose not to choose for us.

Truly, but you’re missing the point here. Ultimately the blame is pinned on the blameless (since there is now no condemnation for us). How exactly does that work?

Then how do you explain this verse?:

While it is certainly clear that God does not “choose for us” (or else all would “choose” right away if it is truly his will that none perish!) ultimately we will lay our crowns down at his feet for we are not worthy. Jesus told his followers that they did not choose him but he chose THEM. And if our choice is ultimately attributable to us, then we saved ourselves in some way. We pulled ourselves up by our own bootstraps. There is something IN US that is good enough to do the right thing.

That’s basically what you’re saying.

FAITH IS GENERATED BY YOURSELF :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Ultimately it’s some kind of elitism, of the most insidious form. Either we are of such a predisposed nature that we can choose such a lofty position aright, or we were selected by some divine arbitrary will. Either way we are somehow more special than others.

And this is exactly why I believe that ECT is straight from the pit of hell and deserves nothing less than to be purged from the kingdom of our holy God.

Yes, redhotmagma, didn’t you know that’s straight from Revival chapter 5 verses 26 through 28? “Thou who believe didst choose Me from a faith which thou didst generate thyself. Blessed be thou for thy good nature! The mass of men do not compare to thee. Though thou hast been saved by My Son’s sacrifice, yet has thou shown thyself approved by complementing the atonement with thine own personal mastery of sin! And so ye shall be exalted over all the wretched sinners which are unworthy to unbuckle thy sandals or even to wash thine own feet!”

Anyway, I gotta go! I’ll get back to this… later. :smiley:

Jesus gave us a commission to preach the gospel to every creature. We have been given the ministry of reconciliation to the lost. God moves through the body of Christ to touch this world. Jesus is the head we are the body his hands, mouth, etc to reach the lost.

Ezekiel 33:8-9
8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

The same principle applies to the body of Christ.

Yes, and again I agree, but you’re still glossing over a huge gap in your logic:

You’re basically saying that the lost are tortured forever and ever and ever not because of any fault of their own (for they inherited what made them worthy of it from Adam) but because some believers failed to pray for them.

And yet those whose fault all of this was are the ones receiving an everlasting reward?

And you don’t see a problem with this…?

I challenge you Justin and Redhot to give me scripture evidence of God supplying the faith for someone to believe. :wink:

I already did and you ignored it. Ephesians 2:8

bible.cc/ephesians/2-8.htm

Wait a minute here…I never said they are lost and tortured because of no fault of their own. If they resist the Holy Spirit and reject God’s only plan for salvation…that is on them. Read Ezekiel 33 8-9 again. Lets be honest here… most Christians receive Jesus as fire insurance and never really evangelize anyone. They will be stand before God for that and the only reward they will receive will be the crown of righteous ( their salvation).