The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Revival, why didn't God warn Adam and Eve...?

Revival, why didn’t God warn Adam and Eve that their sin would bring them eternal hell and would condemn all of their offspring to an evil nature and potential hell as well? If hell is eternal doesn’t it seem that God telling Adam that he would die if he ate of the fruit is a bit of an understatement? Wouldn’t you want to tell your son the real consequences of his actions (eternal punishment), especially if they were so grave? Why would God wait several thousand years to tell his creation about eternal hell?

Also, after Adam and Eve sinned, why didn’t God mention eternal hell if that was the consequence of sin? Wasn’t his discussion about work and painful childbirth a massive understatement if most of creation was going to potentially end up in hell for eternity?

If I may. That really is not a good argument as you are attempting to get in God’s head. Why would God place them in paradise, give them a command He knew they would not obey and kick them out?

God does everything for His glory

I don’t know all the conversations God had with Adam and Eve for God only recorded the ones he wanted us to know. God told them not to eat of the fruit. Just don’t do it or you will die. That is a warning of its self not to do something, and if you do it there are consequences.

First, hell is not eternal. It is a temporary place of torment for unbelievers until final judgment. The lake of fire is eternal torment of separation from God. I really don’t need to know when God decided to tell creation about hell or the lake of fire… I just need to know that it is real place of eternal judgment.

ECT has a problem with this type of question… but UR does not because there is no eternal separation (Hell/Lake of Fire) from God. God did not have to warn Adam and Eve. We are here to learn good and evil… then God will restore and reconcile all. :smiley:

I had no problem answering this type of question. :wink:

What does it really matter when God decided to tell creation about hell or the eternal lake of fire as long as it is true, corp? You don’t have to have all the answers and understand everything fully ( and we don’t) for it to be true.

my point was that you didn’t answer the question, claiming you didn’t need to know, and that subsequently said that you had no problem answering it…
which is it to be? if you had no problem answering it, why not just answer it?
shouldn’t be that hard!
maybe oxymoron will help and expand his answer. at least he’s trying to engage and discuss! or at least it seems that way to me…as i said i didn’t quite understand what he meant.

Oxy,

Did you get into God’s head to make your claim about why God does everything?

So, God unmercifully and relentlessly tortures most of mankind for all of eternity for His glory?

If a human did everything for his or her glory we would call that person a monster.

I don’t believe God is a monster and to paint Him so is the spirit of anti-Christ for Christ came to show us the God who glories in His love.

Just because I didn’t answer to your liking doesn’t make it a wrong answer, Corp. Sometimes truth is so easy to understand it blinds people.

you didn’t answer at all :confused:
how is no answer at all “truth”?

forget that question, actually…just stick with answering the original. we are waiting with baited breath

You are entitled to believe what you want, but the bible is clear that God does everything for His glory, and to answer your question. Yes. God will be glorified in sending people to hell; whether eternal or not as distasteful as it might sound.

(Romans 8:28)
“And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose”

A little girl in the county next to mine was raped and murdered two weeks ago. Are you saying, God didn’t use that horrible crime in Him being glorified?

The writers of Genesis simply had no concept of an afterlife, so discussions on heaven, hell, eternity, whatever didn’t even figure into it. Be obedient, get blessed in this life, rebel, then suffer and die. of course we know that is not true these days, but that was their primitive theology.

Oxy,

No I don’t think God gets glory when a little girl is raped.

I don’t think God gets glory by mercilessly torturing most of His children for eternity.

I don’t believe God is infinitely worse than Molech.

I fear that you do believe these things and use your interpretation of the Bible to defend your view.

You may be right or you may be wrong. The same can be said of you.

The same can’t be said of me.

I do NOT hold ANY of those same horrible notions of God.

The same can be said of you

As for the “horrible” notions. You are quite right. It is quite fearful as it demonstrates the holiness and awesomeness of who God really is. He is not like us and we have to remember that. If I see a horrible God in the bible. I can only deem Him as horrible based on His own word and not what I believe ‘horrible’ to be as I am not the authority. I see nothing in scripture to do so.

I think the point of the OP question is not why, but how can people be sent to eternal torture for something they knew nothing about. If I’m wrong dirtboy you can correct me.

God is just. To tell someone that to sin will mean you die and never tell them that to sin means you die and then are tortured for all of eternity is not just. (Nevermind the fact that our finite minds cannot even comprehend eternity). That is what I believe dirtboy is getting at. God never said anything about eternal consequences for all that time, what should they have just figured it out on their own? Maybe God is really a woman, He says one thing, but expects you know what He really meant :laughing:

Speaking of just measures, how does 80 years weigh equally against eternity?

For me it was studying what scripture actually says and doesn’t say concerning Hell that freed me to accept in faith that Jesus really is the savior of All, in deed not just in title. Hell, ECT is not warned of in the Garden, in the Law, or by the Prophets! To me this is a key point. And it is not as if the concept of ECT was not around back then. The Egyptians believed in a form of ECT and Annihilation, and Moses would have been familiar with that. So Moses not including such in the Law or in his telling of the creation account is significant - to me. Shoot, the Hebrew scriptures do not even have one word that correctly translates as Hell. To me this was significant and really shook my traditional beliefs in Hell.

So I went to the NT, but soon found that neither Hades nor Gehenna meant Hell either, though they were often **mistranslated **as such. And the Greeks certainly had a word that meant Hell, ECT - Tartarus. If Jesus or the writers of the NT intended to communicate the concept of ECT then Tartarus was the word to use! But not once in scripture is Tartarus used as a warning for humans. Not once is Tartarus warned of for humans. But it was used once for sinning angels, thus showing that the writers of the NT were familiar with the word and not afraid to use it. But of course, even this passage only says that the sinning angels are held there until judgment - thus not for humans and not endless.

It was finding that Gehenna, Hinnom Valley was a real place with a real and infamous history, and used by the Pharisees as a theological metaphor kinda like Purgatory, that freed me to reject the concept of Hell/ECT.

I started the study of scripture concerning Hell believing that the traditional doctrine of Hell was as rock-solid Castle only to find out that the more I examined in, the more it crumbled between my fingers like sand. It scared me so I grabbed tower after tower, wall after wall, only to find they were just sand. What I had been taught all my life to be Rock Solid, I found to be nothing but a Sand Castle! After I found the first few towers to crumble, I even called many people asking them to pray for me because what I was finding was scaring the Hell out of me! But the more I studied, well, the more I found my traditional beliefs to not line up with what scripture actually says.

I actually came to disbelieve in Hell and believe in UR for several months before I would even admit such to myself. Until one day in a traditional charismatic worship service the Lord spoke to me very clearly saying, “Stop Lying!” That’s all He said, but I knew exactly what He meant. He meant, 1) Stop lying to myself and admit I’ve come to believe in UR. And 2) Stop lying to others and admit openly that I’ve come to believe in UR, and stop saying that, oh, I’ve just been studying… It was also interesting that the Lord did not give me any reason for doing so, or even affirm that I was right. He only said, “Stop Lying”.

I knew that such openess and honesty would cost me dearly. It might cost me my job, long-term friendships, the respect and love of many people, and might even cost me my marriage. I suppose that’s why I was so hesitant to admit to myself, much less to anyone else that I had, deep down inside at the subconscious level, come to believe that “Joy to the World” is not just a catchy slogan, but that the birth of Jesus ultimately results in Joy to the whole world, not just a few, but to the whole world, not just to humanity even, but to all of creation! Joy to the World, the Lord is Come! Let earth receive her King. Let every heart prepare him room. And heaven and nature sing…

Well, it did cost me much. Almost lost my current livelyhood, job at a ministry. Was excluded from my local fellowship. Long-term friends turned their back on me. Even family members have shunned me and said all manner of evil about me, false accusations, even trying to drive a wedge between my wife and children and I. At one point I could see myself loosing everything, and I went crazy with rage for about 3 days. So angry I could spit fire, so angry I was afraid to be around my family because I didn’t know if I’d strike out in rage. So I spent three days in the park and woods near my house, alone, wrestling with the Lord. It was a terrible time, and I feel like I’m still limping along. But the Lord did meet me there, comfort my heart, and encourage me. I was empowered to forgive others, and even came to see that the events that hurt me so were directed by Him. He wanted to break me, and He did. And He allowed, even orchestrated others doing so. This brokeness though will produce in me precious fruit I trust. “Blessed are the broken, the poor in spirit, the hungry, the mournful…” These are things we do not want to embrace, to experience, much less have loooooooong seasons of such. But I trust that though weeping lasts for the night, Joy will come in the mourning; that though Fall sees everything dying and Winter everything turns cold, Spring, warmth and new life will eventually come, and we shall even a season of greater fruitfulness, summer, eventually come.

In the words of one of my favorite hymns:
“This is my story. This is my song. Praising my Savior all the day long. This is my story. This is my song. Praising my Savior all the day long! Perfect submission, all is at rest. …”

I agree. it seems totally unfair and deceiving.

Some have way less years then 80. Some die young, starting at infancy, childhood, teen years, 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and even 90’s to 100 something. Looks like God is playing favorites. To some he gives them plenty of time to repent, others, not so much. Even still, some never even hear the word of God. Those just have to depend on Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: