Salvation for the Dead (A Practical Guide)


#41

Cindy, There were just as many different beliefs about the afterlife in the past as there are today. Many don’t even believe in an afterlife and some of the ancient Jews thought the same. Their focus was on this life, and they were of the notion that you lived on in your children and grandchildren. Who knows what David believed? But, his writings reflect the sufferings, sorrows and joys of his life on earth.

Psalm 38:1-5 O Lord, do not rebuke me in Your wrath, nor chasten me in Your hot displeasure! For your arrows pierce me deeply, and Your hand presses me down. There is no soundness in my flesh because of Your anger, nor is there any health in my bones. For my iniquities have gone over my head; like a heavy burden, they are too heavy for me. My wounds are foul and festering because of my foolishness."

Psalm 142:5-7 " I cried out to You, O Lord; I said, “You are my refuge, my portion in the land of the living. Attend to my cry, for I am brought very low; deliver me from my persecutors, for they are stronger than I. Bring my soul out of prison, that I might praise Your name…”

I think David knew what “hell”, or the “grave”, was because he was in it at times and is describing it in these, as well as other passages.

As for Psalm 139:8, when David says he makes his bed in sheol, it is like saying,“I made my bed and now I must lay in it.” in other word, God is there in all our joy and pain, triumphs and heartbreaks, highs and lows, etc.etc.

Child of God, What people say about the afterlife is all theory to me. We only know life as a human being here on earth.


#42

I do not think that it hurts to get help in interpreting personal dreams and visions from God and/or Jesus. In fact, it may help and seems to be the general consensus.

But IMHO, God and Jesus would not give you a personal vision or dream that you would not eventually understand yourself. Did any of the prophets of the Holy Bible need assistance in interpreting their visions? Not that I am aware of. (We may need help in interpreting another person’s visions). God will let you know in some way that it is Him. God gives you just what you need. And, God does not need the aid of others to communicate.

The prophetic word of God in scripture was confirmed by God and did not come by the will of man, it came to us from God Himself through holy men who were moved by the Holy Spirit. In other words, it was God speaking through them.

The Trustworthy Prophetic Word

N.K.J.V. 2 Peter 1:16-21. For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


#43

The future doesn’t exist…yet.


#44

I beg to differ. The Spirit of truth can tell us things to come because He is in the future.

John 16:13. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak, and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

Even scientists agree that it is possible to go into the future, but not the past.


#45

I wish to CLARIFY something - regarding LLC. And present another theological model - called Open Theism. Where God knows various probabilities - regarding the future:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism
https://www.iep.utm.edu/o-theism/
https://www.gotquestions.org/open-theism.html

While we might NOT agree with it. It’s an established, theological position.

Is that what you are referring to, LLC?

One Christian female did see the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse :slight_smile: Actually, more than one has seen this. But I’m just presenting one example. Another example is https://youtu.be/IQKp41kPKiM and https://youtu.be/Vb9v_Neh6wg.

And I am marketing it here. As the most probable, End Times model. In accordance with the TV shows, The Walking Dead and Fear The Walking Dead. :wink:

Hey. Don’t say I’m OFF TOPIC. The title of this thread is Salvation for the Dead (A Practical Guide). :smiley:

But on a more practical level. I follow the Anglican tradition…incorporating elements of Eastern Orthodox theology…Contemplation from Yoga and Buddhism (in the spirit of Franciscan contemplation)…and the Native American concept of Medicine (i.e. anything that heals). :smiley:


#46

LLC, here is a video of a guy, who, as a consequence of his sin, brought unhealthy spirits into his life. You can see one spirit flying in the afterlife. His language is not the most appropriate, so those with sensitive hearing may not want to watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-k9PHX4MR4


#47

HFPZ, I think you have me confused with Paidion. :wink: But, as long as we’re on the subject, my question to those who say that God knows the future is “How do we know what God knows?”

Child of God, I watched the video. However, I don’t get much into the paranormal, nor do I believe everything that is on the internet. I still think that we only know what life is as human being. For example, I don’t know what it is like to be a dog because I am not a dog. Until I actually leave this earth, I can only imagine what the afterlife will be.

I believe the Spirit of truth this passage is speaking of is the wisdom of God. This is different than seeing the future as in crystal ball type of stuff.


#48

LLC. Please give me an explanation for this - which I have shared elsewhere here.

Take my Protestant Christian mom - now deceased at 92.5 - having the lifelong gift of prophecy. She never “advertised”, “charged money”, nor “sold tickets”, but she was always right. And she told me as a Boy Scout teenager, to take an umbrella to a parade. None of the weather TV or radio services forecast rain. And I got ribbed by fellow scouts. Until there was a downpour, in the middle of the parade. And I was the only one - with an umbrella. No matter what the deterministic variables were, she saw the final outcome and warned me about it. I believed her and took an umbrella (while not believing the scientific weather experts).


#49

So Randy… you’ve mentioned this before in the past and as such raised it to make various points etc. So I’m intrigued — if you don’t mind me asking… to whom, and of what nature, and of what relevance or effect were your mum’s prophecies?


#50

Hi, Davo. My moms prophesy were just for family members. I haven’t seen her really, talk about her gift - to outsiders. She said she was born, with a veil over her eyes. Which meant she could see. I still can’t figure out…why she was born with the gift…and what was her mission - in life.I think her mission, was to guide her children. But my cousin Julie said my mom’s mother also, was born with that gift. Perhaps some gifts are passed down - through the generations?

Any insights, anyone? Maybe some of you Biblical scholars here? Or Child of God, since you mention you have - the gift of visions?

To tell the truth, Davo. There are many things, I have seen and witnessed. But have no explanation for. Like:

Why did a Roman Catholic woman, with an inoperable brain cancer…Go to a site Mary appeared at…And was cured and given the gift of healing? And her case was investigated, by the Roman Catholic church and doctors. And I have heard her speak and felt her gift.
Or why do certain Eastern saints, give ash burned in a fire. And this cures illnesses and solves problems?
Or why the Chanupa…the sacred pipe of the Native Americans…has such power to answer prayers and cure diseases
Or why Japanese, spiritual light giving modalities…Or the German healer Bruno Groening, who has passed over a century ago…Why his healing meditation or the Japanese light modalities - work?
Etc.

Or perhaps I just chalk it up, to the usual, Eastern Orthodox answer - it’s a divine mystery :question: :slight_smile:


#51

The Spirit of truth is another title for the Holy Spirit.

N.K.J.V. Scholastic Commentary: 16:13. Spirit of truth: This phrase means that the holy Spirit is the source of truth (14:17; 15:26).

Things to come includes truths about the church (see Eph. 3:1-7), as well as future events.


#52

Although, your “moms prophesy were just for family members,” it may have been meant for you to tell her story as well.


#53

Child of God, There are a lot of titles for the Holy Spirit.
To me, the Spirit of truth is wisdom and understanding.
“For the Lord gives wisdom. From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.”

One does not need a crystal ball to tell of things to come.

HFPZ, There are a lot of ways to tell what kind of weather is coming. Sailors could often tell what was ahead by the signs in the sky, wind direction, etc. etc. Some have a heightened sense of awareness such as smell. I’ve heard people say that the could smell rain in the air, or that their arthritis starts acting up every time bad weather is on the way. Some can tell what’s up by the behavior of animals.


#54

So, based on your explanation. I guess I need to follow the weather forecasts, in the Farmers Almanac. And forget about the Weather Channel. Right? :laughing:

But, alas. My mom has shared more things, then just weather - that have come true. :wink:


#55

I like the ad of the weather person. :laughing:


#56

Or perhaps more likely something along the lines of:

"The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10 and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. (2 Th.2:9-10).

“And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; and they worshiped the dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, ‘Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?’” (Rev.13:3-4)

And similarly many other Scriptures here:

bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Lying-Wonders


#57

NOPE. Do you think signs and wonders, ONLY exist for the Jewish people? If folks are doing the works of Satan, then they are EASY to spot. They do three things:

They give credit to themselves
They collect money for themselves
They charge an admission price or sell tickets and ADVERTISE.

As far as Native American ceremonies, Japanese Johrei and German healer Bruno Groening goes. Well, the folks doing these things (whom I hang out with) - are (for the most part) Roman Catholic. And the Roman Catholic church is aware of this. And they have No problem, with folks being dual spiritual citizens. So neither do I. Whether it meets YOUR personal criteria - or NOT. :wink:

Same goes for the gift of prophecy. Or ESP. The Bible is full, of stories of prophecy. The churches (RC, EO, Protestant) worldwide, are full of stories of prophecy, miracles, etc. They give glory to Christ, the Holy Spirit, and God the father.

Besides. Christ was accused of doing the works of healing - as works of the devil.

Do you think God limits miracles? Or the gift of prophecy - to just Christians of yesterday? Or to just Christians today?

For a TRUE saint, outside the Christian faith. Look at Talks with a Sufi Shaykh. Let me quote a bit - from the article:

And some folks who are Christian - like Peter Popoff or Benny Hinn. I would NEITHER encourage - NOR discourage, folks from visiting or watching them. EVEN they can lead people to Christ - although in a convoluted way.

From Do Miracles Happen in Non-Christian Religions?:

Hypothetically, and I neither confirm nor deny this. If there are works of the devil, my mom would KNOW it - when she was alive. I would KNOW it.

From http://www.sunilbali.com/2018/04/dont-be-a-professional-pretzel/:


#58

Thanks Randy… :slight_smile:


#59

Please name the scientists who have affirmed this.

Of course in one sense, all of us are constantly going into the future. But as we do so, we are living in the present.

But to “time travel” into the future is logically impossible. Suppose you could time travel 30 years into the future. Would you be able to meet yourself as a much older person?


#60

They exist for Christians.

Satan is wiser than that:

2 Cor.11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions