I don know bout that RR … I remember a fella that said “to die is gain.”
Yep.
So it is that God throws the fearful soul into the lake of fire for man’s perfection and full entry into the Kingdom of God. I do believe I have about had that fear burned out as it seems I have been in that lake for next to forever. lol
With that which I have experienced, I do also believe there is a place where one begins to live more in the next world than this.
In His Sweet Lord Jesus,
John
That’s easy to say if you’re not the sin-bearer sweating blood and taking on what we deserved.
Granted, this side of His resurrection is another story.
With regard to our physical life and death:
In this life, are we not but sojourners passing through a world that is afar from home?
Is the sting of death taken away when we no longer fear it?
I think so.
Grace or curse?:
“But for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened”
All men are elected of God for Eternal Life.
Adam lived 930 years in this corruption.
God has cut that down to 120 years
Then further down to 70
He said, “for I will not always strive with flesh”
Thus He remembered that they were but flesh, A wind that
passes and does not return. Psalm 78:39
Why art thou afraid?
"For, if we believe, saith he, that Jesus died
and rose again; even so them also, which sleep in Jesus, will
God bring with him. Lo, our belief is antidote enough against
the worst of death. And why are we troubled with death,
when we believe that Jesus died ? and what a triumph is this
over death, that the same Jesus, who died, rose again ! and
what a comfort it is, that the same Jesus, who arose, shall both
come again, and bring all his with him in glory! and, lastly
what a strong cordial is this to all good hearts, that all those,
which die well, do sleep in Jesus ! Thou thoughtest, perhaps,
of sleeping in the bed of the grave; and there, indeed, is rest:
but he tells thee of sleeping in the bosom of Jesus ; and there
is immortality, and blessedness. O blessed Jesus, in thy presence
is the fulness of joy, and at thy right-hand are pleasures
for evermore. Who would desire to walk in the world, when
he may sleep with Jesus?
THOU fearest death :It is much on what terms, and in what
form, death presents himself to thee: if as an enemy, (as that
is somewhere his style, the last enemy, death,} thy unprepara-
tion shall make him dreadful; thy readiness and fortitude shall
take off his terror: if as a messenger of God to fetch thee to
happiness, what reason hast thou to be afraid of thine own
bliss ?
The vanity and miseries of life.
THOU shrinkest at the thought of death :Is it not, for that
thou hast over-valued life; and made thy home on earth?
Delicate persons that have pampered themselves at home, are
loath to stir abroad ; especially upon hard and uncouth voyages.
Perhaps, it is so with thee.
Wherein I cannot but much pity thy mistaking; in placing
thy contentment there, where a greater and wiser man could
find nothing but vanity and vexation. Alas, what can be our
exile, if this be our home ? What woeful entertainment is this,
to be enamoured on! What canst thou meet with here, but
distempered humours, hard usages, violent passages, bodily
sicknesses, sad complaints, hopes disappointed, frequent miscarriages,
wicked plots, cruel menaces, deadly executions, momentary
pleasures sauced with lasting sorrows ; lastly, shadows
of joy, and real miseries ? Are these the things, that so bewitch
thee, that, when death calls at thy door, thou art ready to say
to it, as the Devil said to our Saviour, Art thou come to torment
me before the time ? Matt. 8. 29.
"The happy advantages of death. "
I AM afraid to die :“This is the voice of nature: but wilt
thou hear what grace saith ? To me to live is Christ, and to
die is gain. If, therefore, mere nature reign in thee, thou
canst not but be affrighted with death : but, if true grace be
prevalent in thy soul, that guest shall not be unwelcome.
Was ever any man afraid of profit and advantage ? such is
death to the faithful. Whosoever he be, that finds Christ to
be his life, shall be sure to find death his gain; for that he is
thereby brought to a more full and near communion with
Christ: whereas, before, he enjoyed his Saviour only by the
dim apprehension of his faith; now, he doth clearly and immediately
enjoy that glorious presence, which only makes
blessedness.”
Joseph Hall
Death is still an outrage and the last enemy. But it’s the way of all flesh. It’s nice to talk about it as though it were a warm and fuzzy pal unless it’s your child or loved one who just died.
My friend, I don’t believe you know the losses I have suffered or worse yet witnessed.
Should you have suffered such my heart goes out to you. I know the pain.
As we are sorely stretched by our earthly trials and tribulations, of which physical death seems to be the greatest, we will be brought always to the foundational question, “is God good?” … is His purpose and plan for our lives and the lives of all, perfectly orchestrated through His love?"
John
Death is captivity - and still is until the resurrection. The disobedient dead from the Flood were preached to by Christ. Can you imagine the hope He kindled even there? If we asked them what they will be saved from after being held captive for centuries by it - they will tell you what it is: DEATH.
Think big when defining Christ’s victory. All this talk about saving us from ourselves, or ‘dying to self’ is paltry, egocentric crap in comparison.
Obviously my friend, you are bound by a substitutionary view of Christ and cross. So be it, until the Spirit broadens your view to see we were in Christ at Calvary, we were in Christ before the foundations, and we are in Christ today. And low and behold He is even in us. Where shall we ever hide!
As to the disobedient of Noah’s day, could it be that Christ who exists in all times and space entered into another time, another space, meeting these poor souls at the grave. I think so, and so shall He meet all of us. Yes, Christ death and burial is ours, and ours His. Oh, the wonder of it all!
Be blessed my friend and yes, think big 
John
No, Christ met them while He was dead with them and like them. But He’s not dead now - He’s was resurrected from the dead. He’s not God of the dead but of the living. Christ was not dead metaphorically but actually dead for 3 days of His existence. Let’s understand that or start a new religion.
Christ’s death should have been ours, but wasn’t ours - rotting away for an eternity with life again forgotten and unattainable. Resurrection is the new thing - the new bag everything has to fit into, try and cram all the old stuff (as though it it were always true) and the bag will rip. From the moment of creation time started and the cross was an actual moment in it. It was finished the moment it was finished, not a moment before nor after.
Stop talkin’ gas to me - religious myths are of no interest to me. Christianity is about facts.
Sir, if you might at least permit me a sigh and an "oh, well", before moving on to more fertile ground.
That’s a cruel thing to say to those who disagree with you. What does ‘fertile ground’ look like? Watching the grass grow?
That, too. 
I agree. Not entirely sure why you’d say so, though, since I never said it was irresponsible to believe that we are forgiven. (You did read what you copy-pasted me saying, right? 
)
Which I’ve never once taught, and have always opposed. (If I state, in effect, that repentance has nothing to do with being worthy to earn forgiveness, why am I being treated as though I have said that by repentance we make ourselves worthy of forgiveness!?)
Nothing. As I have emphatically said before many times, if God doesn’t act first and continually to forgive us our sins, then that’s the end, period. (Indeed I believe, and have said before, we’d be annihilated out of existence pronto if He didn’t forgive us our sins.)
Neither I nor the NT authors, nor Jesus by report, nor even the OT authors (by and large), have any problem accepting this and also that without the repentance of the sinner there is no forgiveness of sin. But it isn’t only the notion of trying to do it by ourselves, or the notion of earning God’s salvation, that we have to repent of–though I agree (with you and John both) those things have to be repented of, too (where we have them). The scriptures have a lot to say about rejecting and repenting of either notion (which at bottom are pretty closely related ideas if not exactly identical).
But the scriptures have a lot to say about repenting of other things, too. Not only repenting of our self-justification attempts.
And no, John, I agree, it isn’t possible to repent–certainly not without letting God work authoritatively in us. To sheerly ignore or reject our share of moral responsibility, though–a responsibility gifted to us by God–is (by tautology) morally irresponsible. It’s tantamount to hiding our mina in a napkin, or our talanton of silver in a hole, until the Day to come.
I don’t want to sound too harsh in saying that, because I do believe there’s a lot to be said in favor of the process of repentance you were talking about. My only main caution against it, is that it shouldn’t involve the crippled man still lying around on the mat when God has healed him–instead of taking up his mat and walking off to do justice and righteousness, (and rejecting whatever got him ‘called on the mat’ by God to begin with!)
Since I’m only taking the opportunity to catch up on replies to me per se, and I have a lonnnnng way to go in catching up, I’m going to skip commenting further on your exchanges between each other.
Jason, I often jibe some of my friends that still walk in ignorance with the saying, “pick up they cross, pilgrim!”. Each time I write that I smile, because should these ever honestly attempt to pick up that cross they will find it can’t be done. Only Christ within can carry our cross through this world. Think about that, in regard to your efforts. And if God gives you a heart to see, my brother, you will realize dead men don’t do squat, and your old man is as dead as mine. All they can do, when they move, is stink up the place.
Bless you my friend, for one day He will reveal your futility and you will find rest,
John
John,
What do you believe Jesus meant when he said we should take up our cross and follow him?
Thank you,
Sonia
Sonia, Jesus’ purpose is behind that statement, as I said.
Next to love, the cross illuminates our futility. I write this not from an intellectual view but from experiential knowledge. I know the cross, and I know it brings us to the end of our selves.
Dead men don’t do anything and to believe other wise is delusion. So reckon the Cross and the old man dead.
John
And what would you say is meant by “cross”?
Merry Christmas!
Sonia
Sonia, at the deepest level the Cross is synonymous with Christ.
Easier understood is, the Cross is our existence in the world. Our worldly experience is but to humble us, thus we die.
"to live is Christ, to die is gain"
When you experientially see the enormity of the cross , you will realize these entities as the same; the lake of fire, the second death and the cross. This is hidden from the religiously wise of this world, so they prattle on with vain philosophies and silver dollar words, as blind men describing an elephant. They ever occupy themselves with dissection instead of moving toward the One, the Whole, and the All in All.
The All in All is seen as Christ Jesus reveals Himself. May we give glory to His precious Name!
John
From what scripture or teaching do you conclude that the Cross is the same as Christ? I’d like to better understand your reasoning on that.
I’m also not sure how it is that you equate our existence in the world with the Cross. Could you elaborate on that? Do you have any scriptural support for such an idea (other than the phrase you already quoted).
We are told plainly that the lake of fire is the second death, but I’m not sure how it is that you group the cross in with them. Can you please explain?
Thank you,
Sonia
Sonia, the cross for Christ began with God dressing Himself in sinful flesh. So it is also with us. The world becomes God’s cross as He condescends and sacrifices Himself in the form of man. So it is also with us. Jesus told us, “as He is is, so are we in the world.”
Further back and going deeper, we were in even in Christ before the foundations. So in time and space like our Elder Brother, we leave our first estate to be humbled by the world and learn of Love’s sacrifice.
Oh, to discover of the circle of the inner and interconnectedness of His love, where we find Christ in us and ourselves in Christ. Here all is sustained and gathered together in God.
Sonia, you and I were in Christ before the foundations, We were in Christ two thousand years ago. We are in Him today. And wonder of all wonders He is in us and always has been. It is the His apocalypse, Christ’s revealing, or lack there of, that causes man to see or not. I could quote scripture til I am blue in the face but until one experience His glorious unveiling, I waste my time.
And please note the Bible is written in such a way, one can make it say just about anything… Thirty thousand denominations lay testament to that.
Christ, Cross, Lake of Fire, our Worldly Existence are all beautifully connected in Love and once seen through His eyes are realized the same. May God, grant you the discovery of the wonders of being found in Christ, where God All in All is to be realized.
“There are but two truths, the all and nought. Everything else is a falsity.”
Guyon