second death in the Targumim - annihilation

[sven]

I came of across of this and thought it’s quite interesting, of course, the Targumim (aswell as the apocrypha like Enoch) have no authority on the subject but I’m interested in your opinions; these are the relevant quotes:

3. The appeal to the Targums equally fails to shake my position. As regards their date, if, as very able critics suppose, the Targum of Onkelos belongs to the end of the third or even to the end of the second century, that is a date after Rabbi Akiba had (according to Dr. Pusey) altered the opinion of the Jews from an endless to a temporal Gehenna. This would alone prove that the mere phrases of the Targum have not the meaning which Dr. Pusey assigns to them *(1). But what bearing have such phrases as “the second death” in Onkelos (Deut. xxxiii. 6), and in Jonathar. (Is. xxii. 14, lxv. 5, 6), on my position? Dr. Deutsch and others who knew the Targums best, wholly failed to see in them the meaning which Dr. Pusey attaches to them. To me it is perfectly obvious that by “second death” they meant annihilation, which, by their day, at any rate, if not long before, had become a common belief among the Jews. The phrase meant what in another place Jonathan defines it to mean – that “the wicked shall not live in the world to come.”

tentmaker.org/books/mercyand … t_ch8.html
(very interesting article, dealing with the ancient Jewish point of view on that subject, it seems they overwhelmingly tended to annihilationism)

in another passage (Isaiah 22:14) ‘second death’ seems to mean transmigration of souls but this view is opposed here, while the writer uses quotes from the Targumim to defend annihilationism:

The meaning of the phrase “second death” is clarified by its usage in the Targum, which is the Aramaic translation and interpretation of the Old Testament. In the Targum, the phrase is used several times to refer to the final and irreversible death of the wicked. According to Strack and Billerbeck, the Targum on Jeremiah 51:39, 57 contains an oracle against Babylon, which says: "They shall die the second death and not live in the world to come."51 Here the second death is clearly the death resulting from the final judgment which prevents evildoers from living in the world to come.

In his study The New Testament and the Palestinian Targum to the Pentateuch, M. McNamara cites the Targums of Deuteronomy 33:6, Isaiah 22:14 and 65:6, 15 where the phrase “second death” is used to describe the ultimate, irreversible death. The Targum on Deuteronomy 33:6 reads: "Let Reuben live in this world and die not in the second death in which death the wicked die in the world to come."52 In the Targum on Isaiah 22:14, the prophet says: "This sin shall not be forgiven you till you die the second death, says the Lord of Host."53 In both instances, “the second death” is the ultimate destruction experienced by the wicked at the final judgment.

The Targum on Isaiah 65:6 is very close to Revelation 20:14 and 21:8. It reads: "Their punishment shall be in Gehenna where the fire burns all the day. Behold, it is written before me: ‘I will not give them respite during (their) life but will render them the punishment of their transgressions and will deliver their bodies to the second death."54 Again, the Targum on Isaiah 65:15 reads: "And you shall leave your name for a curse to my chosen and the Lord God will slay you with the second death but his servants, the righteous, he shall call by a different name."55 Here, the second death is explicitly equated with the slaying of the wicked by the Lord, a clear image of final destruction and not of eternal torment.

source: biblicalperspectives.com/boo … tion/6.htm

what would you say to oppose this view if ‘second death’ was actually used in Jewish literature to denote utter extinction?, and do you maybe know links where I can read the Targumim? I found several but none of them contain all the passages mentioned here.

[Origen]

I wonder what the original language word translated “world” is? Olam? They shall not live “in the olam to come”, in the age to come (e.g. the millennium)? After which there is another age or ages (e.g. the new earth age/s)? Or another world or worlds? Evidently some ancient Jews thought there would be a finite Messianic age when the Messiah would rule (from hundreds to thousands of years) to be followed by another age. St Paul (the ex-Pharisee) spoke of multiple future ages, as do many NT verses.

This was posted in the following thread:

“Just doing a quick Google search, I found this on Wikipedia, and it does have a citation, but I’m wondering if anyone can back it up:”

"Targum Isaiah has three occurrences. The first is 22:14 where the Aramaic paraphrases the Hebrew as: “This sin will not be forgiven you until you die the second death.” "

“en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_death#Targum_Isaiah”

The Second Death

So, where did John the Revelator get that fancy concept from? Did he just make up a phrase that nobody understood the meaning of, or did it have some obscure meaning within early Christian circles that isn’t real clear? Just doing a quick Google search, I found this on Wikipedia, and it does have a citation, but I’m wondering if anyone can back it up: Very interesting. The Targums were Aramaic interpretations of the original Hebrew. They would add some nuances to the texts that weren’t presen…

[Origen]

“Many sources that discuss the word “olam” write that it does not mean ”world” anywhere in Tanach except perhaps Kohelet 3:11.”

https://www.jewishlinknj.com/features/22659-what-is-the-meaning-of-the-word-olam

[sven]

Does anybody have this book or is willing to purchase it:

http://booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/books/10.1163/ej.9789004165977.i-646.110

[Origen]

Sven, the vast majority of it was available as a free preview when i visited here:

"Empsychoi Logoi — Religious Innovations in Antiquity: Studies in Honour of …

edited by Alberdina Houtman, Albert de Jong, Magda Misset-Van de Weg" [p.405ff]

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Hj6wCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA405&lpg=PA405&dq=The+Fate+Of+The+Wicked:+Second+Death+In+Early+Jewish+And+Christian+Texts&source=bl&ots=gK1sLLcT3J&sig=Uni7e39PDOdSEVaSn4jNJkUwLQ4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit2_vfldveAhV1NH0KHUnOCt0Q6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20Fate%20Of%20The%20Wicked%3A%20Second%20Death%20In%20Early%20Jewish%20And%20Christian%20Texts&f=false

Also this on the same subject may be of interest:

"Educating Early Christians through the Rhetoric of Hell: “Weeping and …
By Meghan Henning” [p.135ff]

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Ok-Mcx7-zU8C&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=The+Fate+Of+The+Wicked:+Second+Death+In+Early+Jewish+And+Christian+Texts&source=bl&ots=7hjL2W2iMv&sig=O2m47abOItfWITgRhRTJ5KG-5Ck&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit2_vfldveAhV1NH0KHUnOCt0Q6AEwA3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=The%20Fate%20Of%20The%20Wicked%3A%20Second%20Death%20In%20Early%20Jewish%20And%20Christian%20Texts&f=false

[sven]

Thank you, that corresponds well with what I already cited.

[JoenBjerregaard]

I think Jude 12 is another Jewish litterature reference to the second death. Second death concept is probably from egyptian mythology. It seems to me that if anyone can die a second time, they have given a blessing from God and then failed God. Yet this second death is not their end. All reign and authority has not been subjected in Revelation but Paul tells it will be so later in time.