The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Simple, Short Proof of Reconciliation of All People

After I became an evangelical reconciliationist, God gave me very simple proof that He will reconcile all.

Matthew 10:31 “So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.”

Sparrows are things. People have more value than things. Therefore, God will save not just things but people since they have greater value.

That’s a very good point Nick! Thanks for pointing that out. It does seem that since we are all created in His image and therefore are cloaked in a robe of value and worth that He would save everybody.

Just read your comment Nick, and it is a good reminder of the great love and care God has for each and every person. Here’s another bit of evidence, i believe, of God’s plan to bring all into his great “salvation fold.”

Jesus is quoted in John chapter 10 as saying, “I have other sheep that are not in this sheep pen. I must bring them together too, when they hear my voice. Then there will be one flock of sheep and one shepherd.” (Jn 10:10).

Who are these sheep? Could they not be members of other cultures, other faiths, scattered around the world? Jesus’ plan, the plan of the Father, is that all these flocks will be ultimately gathered into one flock; even so, at this time, the members of all flocks are, even without being aware of it, Jesus sheep. We can feel secure about them, even though they may not know of our savior by name, because Jesus says he will bring them in, God says he no longer sees any sin in them, and they have in fact been reconciled to Him.

How about that? I’m sure there is room for clarification and correction, but I think it is another text that points to ultimate reconciliation and salvation of all mankind.

In that text, a few lines down, Jesus states that some of those who are arguing with him do so because they are NOT his sheep. Does this statement argue against His plan to have one fold for all sheep, or does it suggest that some people will never become sheep of the shepherd? Could be, except that Jesus also says that he will draw all to Himself (Jn12:32). And of course there is the great example of Saul, or Paul, who would have been one of those “non-sheep” at the time, but was later brought into the fold.

Blessings.
Loren

Loren, Yes, John 10:16 is a really good one. I did a study on that this morning. Thank you for providing the “bread”. :laughing:

I looked at other verses that shared the same theme as the one you provided.
First, looking at John 10:16 it is interesting that the “fold” that Jesus refers to is Israel. However, Jesus often goes out of His way to condemn the physical Israel and Jerusalem and the traditions of the people of the land.
I looked at Isaiah 56:8 next. “The Lord God which gathers the outcasts of Israel saith, ‘Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.’” The most obvious meaning would be a prophetic reference to the Jews and then the Gentiles being saved, as per Romans 1:16.
This is a problem, though, since Paul actively condemns works salvation which is the very substance of the Jewish faith.
Another explanation is that there are two Israels (I mean both Judah and Israel combined when I say Israel in this context) and thus two Jerusalems. The obvious one is the historical Israel. The other one is spiritual Israel. This is confirmed by Paul who says that the law is spiritual (Romans 7:14). If there is spiritual law, then there must be a spiritual kingdom where Jesus Christ is king. If this is the case then everything that is prophetic of Israel in the Old Testament is a reference to spiritual Israel unless otherwise indicated by text (which could be seen if one uses a lexicon to distinguish between the historical Jerusalem and New Jerusalem. Check out Dr. Stephen Jones’ teachings on this to confirm at gods-kingdom-ministries.net/.)
Anyways, when we apply the above concept to the verse in Isaiah, we see that the outcasts of Israel are really the elect of the kingdom, Christians saved in the first resurrection (that is a study for another time.) Nevertheless, we see that others are added to the kingdom of God. As already explained, this cannot simply be gentiles added to the Israelite nation but rather non-Christians added to the Kingdom of God. This is further confirmed in verse 6-7 where “sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keeps the Sabbath from polluting it, and takes hold of my covenant. Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for ALL people.” It is clear then that all can be accepted into the Kingdom. (However, it doesn’t mention whether they actually join or not. We’ll approach this later.) I could dissect this and explain each metaphor in context of Kingdom theology but I might just do that in a separate post. The key point is that God gathers non-Christians to Himself.
Discussion: The above wouldn’t really make any sense logically if God is saying that “potential” Christians are continually accepted into His kingdom but rather it is speaking of non-Christians who join the kingdom. The difference has to do with timing. Potential Christians are those who God choose to be saved before His Second Coming. Non-Christians, thus, are not saved in His Second Coming or in the general resurrection of the dead. Furthermore, they are the people who are going to Hell. Even in Hell, the hope of salvation is still extended to all. We know this because Revelation 21:24-25 says that the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into the Kingdom and that gates will never be shut since there will be no night there. The kicker is that the kings of the earth were already killed in the battle between the Beast and the King on the White Horse in Revelation
19:21. The only way kings could have came in is if there is post-millennial salvation. The gates of the kingdom will never be shut out to outsiders because the Light of Jesus never fails! Hallelujah!

The question then becomes will everyone walk through the pearly gates. I will do a case-study of Nineveh. There are 3 aspects to this study: Jonah, Nahum, and Jesus. Jonah preached to Nineveh and they repented (in 862 BC). Keep in mind, there were about 120,000 souls in Nineveh and all of them repented (Jonah 4:11, Jonah 3:10). We know that all of them repented since the king decreed everyone to repent. Nahum came along in 713 BC and then prophesied destruction over them which eventually happened in 612 BC (according to okapi.berkeley.edu/nineveh/timelines.html). Jesus came along in 32 AD or so and said “(the men of Nineveh) repented at the preaching of Jonah; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.” If Jonah, a mere man, converted 120000 souls to God then Jesus, who is infinitely loving and powerful, will convert all to Him. God has the power to do what He wants. If God wants everyone to be saved, then He shall have everyone saved. The kicker is that Nahum prophesied nearly 100% destruction on Nineveh. There’s very little there today (it’s near Mosul, Iraq.) It is clear then that all peopled will be saved but everyone of the world will face God’s judgement. There will little left of their souls after Hell. The ego will be subdued and Christ will reign triumphant. The soul and body will be taken captive under the Spirit.

Some may not be convinced that those who are not yet saved but will be saved refers to post-millennial salvation but those who are not saved yet in the Church, or Pentecostal, age (everything prior to the Second Coming and beginning with the upper room Pentecostal experience). Their viewpoint is supported by the fact that the epistles are not addressed to people outside of the church. Also, when we look at verses like 1 Peter 10:25 “For you were as sheep going astray; but are now returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls”, we might come to the conclusion that there is nothing more to it; that that is the end of the story as far as salvation is concerned. The vast majority of the church can not believe in UR because the NT writings don’t make it very obvious. In fact, Jesus, more than anyone else states the realities of Hell so much that people have a hard time believing there is more for the unsaved. Why is it that obscure verses and typologies must be used to explain that all must be saved? Furthermore wouldn’t it be a weird extrapolation if those who are unsaved are gentiles while Christians are the true Jewish people, according to Kingdom theology? Why can’t God be obvious and use common words that normal people would understand? Why must God use parables?
“Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: ‘I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world’” (Matthew 13:34-35).
Case in point: Prophets and Psalmists rarely speak in non-esoteric language. Jesus refers to the Psalmist in Psalms 78:2 “I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old” and thus makes His point that not everyone can or will be given understanding. The shocker is that the privilege of understanding is not even given to everyone in the church. This is why UR is not believed in the church: because God blinds people to the Truth.
There is good news! The conflict between Christians who affirm more closely the truths of the gospel (see the Bible spiritually) will be united with those who are blinded and interpret the Bible carnally. Ezekiel 37:22,24 says “And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all…And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgements, and observe my statutes, and do them.” The analogy that I present is that in Christianity there is Judah and Israel (or Samaria, if you are looking at it from a NT standpoint). Judah closely observes the laws and is the country from which Jerusalem is capital. Israel, or Samaria, also follows God but often picks up customs and idols from the surrounding countries. Now, once we understand this in a spiritual way, we see that Judah-Christians are those who see the law spiritually and believe that God is really as powerful as He says He is (implying they believe in things like UR and actually carry forth the Kingdom life on earth.) The Israel-Christians constitute the majority of the church or the Christian “nation”. They see the law carnally and obey without having the law written in their hearts (Romans 2:29). As a result, where the law is not obvious to them they pick up external beliefs such as ECT and its derivatives (which derive from pagan philosophies, “Yes, I’m pointing at you, Augustine.”) and they try to make America a Christian nation by making the laws Christian. They presume that God needs people to be coerced to obey His moral laws so that His Kingdom will be manifest on earth. The absolutely positive news is that both types of Christians will be united under Christ our King and they will not be divided and will obey the law spiritually.
There are complications, of course, with the Judah-Samaria split in Christianity I have presented, especially when we embark into the NT and read about the pharisees who are leaders in Judah. I, again, take the burden off of myself and place it upon Stephen Jones to explain how Judaism and Zionism is not part of Christianity, and how it prophetically represents the nation Edom rather than Judah. Check out gods-kingdom-ministries.net/ … irthright/ for Stephen Jones’ extensive proofs.
NOTE: After reading through Stephen Jones’ books How to be a Jew and How to be an Israelite, I realized I used completely different analogies (that still hold up somehow) and did not go by a more strict, detailed approach that Dr. Jones lays out that is accurate as per Biblical laws. I recommend the precocious reader to investigate here at: gods-kingdom-ministries.net/ … israelite/ .

Also, I think the most interesting facet of John 12:32 is who is do the lifting of Jesus from the earth. The reconciliation of all people can’t occur without those elect upholding Him in their everyday life and life after the millennium.

Hi Nick,

You make some very good points.

You said

" The shocker is that the privilege of understanding is not even given to everyone in the church. This is why UR is not believed in the church: because God blinds people to the Truth."

I’ve never considered that in the context you talk about. I assume you are talking about the church today?

I am also struck by the Judah-Christian vs the Israel- Christian. Would you say that the Israel-Christian had to have some type of conversion experience to be categorized a Christian?

This is fascinating… please excuse if I don’t show proper forum etiquette. I am new.

thanks,

Chad

Hey Chad!
There is no form etiquette on here as far as I’m aware. If there is I’m pretty sure I have broken it by now. :slight_smile:

Yeah, I should have been more specific to say that God blinds people in the church to some key aspects of the Truth. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Yes. I don’t know if you are familiar with the feast typologies. I think Brueggeman taught on that stuff. It is helpful to understand that there are three levels of Christianity. Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Everyone in the church has gone through Passover (justified by faith in Jesus Christ). Pentecost is a bit more selective (soul sanctified by indwelling of Holy Spirit, also communication with God becomes two-way rather than believer just talking to God). Tabernacles is extremely selective. They are the elect that Paul talks about in Romans 9. Tabernacles is the full manifestation of the Holy Spirit in someone’s life rather than just partial like in Pentecost. The difference between Judah-Christian and Samarian-Christian is what they are pursuing. Those who just have been born again are seeking Pentecost. Unfortunately, much of the denominational and much of the non-denominational churches are stuck with doctrine and putting God in a box so they never really mature. They are Samarian-Christians. Those who are in the church but seek more than just whatever their church is teaching and is deep into the things of God are likely pursuing Tabernacles. They are the Jewish-Christians. Interestingly, much of the church (on earth) tries to confine everyone to Pentecost, mainly because they are unaware of Tabernacles (they are blinded.)
Currently, I’m trying to figure out how to help Samarian-Christians see God for who He is: Love. I am not sure how to teach them to overcome their denominational barriers except to understand their background and teach them the Laws of God. Right now, I figure the best I can do is learn God’s precious laws.

I’m not sure if I answered your question clearly. Please ask for clarification. From now on, I’ll try to keep it simpler, if I can.

Another simple short proof.

“Love never fails”

Isaiah 25:8

He will swallow up death forever,
And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces;
The rebuke of His people
He will take away from all the earth;
For the Lord has spoken.

Here is another one verse proof of Universalism :
GOD IS VERY GOOD INDEED:
Luk:018:019 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none
is good, save one, that is, God.

And a three verse proof:
GOD IS WILLING:
2Pe:003:009 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men
count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not
willing that any should perish, but that all should come
to repentance.

GOD IS ABLE:

Job:042:002 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no
thought can be withholden from thee.
Jer:032:027 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any
thing too hard for me?

But I like the many sparrows proof better.

And I’d like to say that sparrows are creatures, valuable in their own right.

– Nicholas

I posted this before in another thread, but it seems to fit here as well.

Two strong claims exist in the Bible, claims that can serve as premises in a powerful argument.

Premise 1: God desires that all be saved.

Premise 2: God accomplishes all that He desires.

Conclusion: All will be saved.

Supporting biblical verses for premise 1

1 Timothy 2:4, [God] desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9, The Lord . . . is not willing that any should perish, but [wills instead] that all should come to repentance.

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never come to an end. . . . For the Lord will not reject forever. Although he causes grief, he will have compassion according to the abundance of his steadfast love; for he does not willingly afflict or grieve anyone.

Supporting biblical verses for premise 2

Job 42:2, I know that you [the Lord God] can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Isaiah 46:10b and 11b, My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose . . . I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.

Isaiah 55:11, So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

After I became an evangelical reconciliationist, God gave me very simple proof that He will reconcile all.

Matthew 10:31 “So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.”

Sparrows are things. People have more value than things. Therefore, God will save not just things but people since they have greater value.

But Sparrows operate on instinct wheras man has free will or at least can make choices so if his choice is against God , what is the next step?

He (God) will remain faithful to the task.

Some folks try to make it about free will. God so respects man’s free will that He will allow them to choose hell over heaven, because of the deadline.

You know, God set the deadline at death. If you dont make the right choice by death, you lose, you are out, no more second chances, hell forever etc.

But then, the scripture says, “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess…” and we are told that just before He throws them into hell forever, God is going to force every rebel to bow and scape before Him and His Son- Just for spite I guess. Now that deosnt show too much respect for free will does it.

And since God has set the world so that people die from all kinds of things at all kinds of times in their lives and has put them in places where there are all different kinds of religions and philosophies in control and some of them might not even hear the gospel before they die, much less a good and pure and true version of it…

But hey, even little babies will be burnning in hell if you believe some of the greatest men of orthodox Christian faith, becuase this God, who so respects and cares for free will, would rather torment a child forever than violate their “free will” or give them a second chance.

Yeeeesh! Oi Vei! I woud rather hang myself and jump head first into the lake of fire than believe such an abominable gospel!

“As in Adam all men died so also in Christ shall all men be made alive”

“For God has shut up all in disobedience that He might have mercy on all”

“If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me”

Ahhhh. Whew! For a few minutes there I thought I might have to jump screaming into the lake of fire. Thank God for the scriptures. I feel so much better about things. My God and His Good News especially. :slight_smile:

I know I have quoted this text before, but I think it is possibly the best scriptural support for the reconciliation of all, or at least the correction of the unrighteous:

The Lord knows how to deliver the devout out of trial, but to reserve the unrighteous for a day of judgment, to be corrected. (2 Peter 2:9)

Though this is my personal translation, I believe it to be accurate.

The Concordant translation of the verse is similar:

The Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for chastening in the day of judging.

The Lord knows how to deliver the devout out of trial, but to reserve the unrighteous for a day of judgment, to be corrected. (2 Peter 2:9)

Though this is my personal translation, I believe it to be accurate.

The Concordant translation of the verse is similar:

The Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for chastening in the day of judging

Amazing how the translation of a few words here and there make an eternal difference. "Corrected/Chastening vs punished or destroyed.

Here is one page providing ‘all’ the English translations of the verse. Noticeably lacking is any translation that sees a wider meaning to ‘punishment.’
That’s discouraging, and borderline dishonest.
biblegateway.com/verse/en/2%20Peter%202:9

edit: I mean the people that choose NOT to present alternative translations along the UR lines - those people are not being completely honest.

Isnt chastisement also punishment. Ther is, imo, an element of punishment in the correction- whom the Lord loves He chastens. One of the reasons I say this is that in Acts 4:21 the Sanhedrin considered how to “kolasonai” the apostles because the people were gloriying God over a miracle done by them. This use of the word would involve “punishment”. I don’t think the Pahrisees were looking to benignly correct the apostles- they wanted to punish them.

I recognize that God has loving intent in His chastisements, for the righteous and the wicked, but it appears to me that sometimes punishment is an aspect of kolazo.

It wasn’t exactly just any old Pharisees; it was the council of high priests: Annas the high priest and Caiaphas and John and Alexander, and all who were of the high-priestly family. Was it not possible that these high priests wished to correct this crazy notion that the crucified Jesus was the Messiah? He who didn’t save the Jews from the Romans at all as they expected the Messiah to do. They wanted the apostles back into the fold of Judaism, and sought to correct them rather than merely get revenge upon them. Correction may indeed involve some unpleasantness or even pain. Some fathers spank their children with the view of correcting them, and not merely to inflict a penalty. I know that the word “punish” is used in that sense by many. I like to reserve the word “punishment” for the administration of a penalty and/or for vengeance.