The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Terrifying website that brought back all my fears

Evangelical Universalism
#4

Lady,

Put all of those things out of your mind, and go read 1 John instead. :wink:

Here is what God says about His attitude toward sinners:

Eze 33:11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

God is love, so everything He does is for good. He loves you. 1 Peter 5:7 “Give all your worries and cares to God, for he cares about you.”

Pray, and go looking for your Father, and may He give you comfort and peace,
Sonia

#5

Hi Lady Bug,

Faith is the substance of things hoped for (not feared), so to believe in Hell for anyone is the opposite of faith, unless of course we hope for some to go to Hell.

And “God does not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and sound judgment.” If God does not give us a spirit of fear, and the doctrine of hell fills your heart with fear, then the doctrine of hell is not from God. And if God is love, and God loves all, and love never fails, then it is impossible for there to be a hell.

I too have reviewed many NDE testimonies and I’ve come to believe that the people are experiencing the full spiritual reality of “this present evil age” as Paul calls it. In this present evil age people are in bondage to evil, tormented from within and without and have no hope of liberation. People are “slaves of unrighteousness”, dead in their trespasses, perishing in their sin, in need of a savior. Visions, dreams, experiences of this spiritual reality would naturally be interpreted as being Hell, if one believes in Hell. But I think scripture affirms that these are revelations of “what is” (present evil age) not “what will be” (Hell). Have you noticed that most, if not all, such testimonies end in salvation and deliverance. Some are actually saved during the vision, dream, NDE. And some even experience Jesus taking them to heaven (the kingdom of God) after they are delivered from Hell (this present evil age). And others come to have faith in Jesus after they come back to life. So much for “no second chances.”

#6

keep in mind that anyone can post anything in the net, most of these are nightmares, and mixtures and worthless sites aimed at fear, fear, fear.

their spirit is not the spirit of truth. take a look at old testament, God warned his people
of sinning, because it is a road to destruction in this life, not after life, if there is, it is impossible to be forever,
the false doctrine of hell. these testimonies won’t let you Love your God, and you will live everyday by stress (I experienced it), fear cannot cast out love, but love casts out fear, why most of the people in East can’t see such things? even they had NDEs but they didn’t see heaven and hell, because they don’t believe like the people in west
as i posted about after death, and what are these testimonies? hollywood movies?
specially of the one, Baxter, she really is denying the real Jesus Christ,
hell to be forever is in dangerous of denying the resurrection of the dead,
Bible says dead know nothing even Jesus resurrected (I think, just Jesus is in Heaven, with the Father and the Angels)
(problem of traditional churches: because of parable of Rich man and Lazarus)
I don’t know how they add to scripture that after Jesus resurrection,
the righteous were ascended to Abraham’s bosom from sheol!?
because of the tombs were broken after his death? I don’t think so, it was a miracle from God to prove

now a question (the biggest weapon):
when Jesus died he was wicked for us, why he didn’t get punishment in hell in those 3 days?
hmm? think about it, you know, only weapon is God’s words

traditional churches say Satan wants all the people to believe that All will be saved,
and I’m saying satan wants all the people to believe that their God is Hitler!

traditional churches is saying when you accept Jesus as savior you will go to heaven! Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, saved from what? nowhere in the Bible mentioned to saved from hell after death :slight_smile:

the only one who really died, not having a NDE, was Lazarus, what about his testimony?

#7

thank you guys for responding to me; I am sorry if I don’t respond to everyone individually, it’s always harder for me to do this kind of thing, even though I’d like to.

I cannot tell you in enough words how much stress (even before this website) that the concept of EH has given me. It is unlike any other doctrine that I’ve ever seen. One respondent had mentioned that if the doctrine instills that much fear in me, it is not of God. I tend to believe him. I can assure you that the website about hell gave me the same type of chills/goose bumps as I get when I’ve watched things like Unsolved Mysteries or read about the paranormal - that creepy, demonic feeling that you get when you know that something is definitely not a good thing for you to be getting involved in, let alone thinking about. The odd thing about things from the demonic is that no matter your religious persuasion, you probably KNOW what that feeling is when you get it. It’s a certain type of feeling that you KNOW is coming from a bad source, and there is no doubt whatsoever as to its demonic origin. Now if that website about hell gives me that same feeling as the paranormal stuff, it cannot be of God, somehow. God never ever gives you that feeling. He’s the one you run to get away from those feelings, not run toward those feelings.

I’m not sure how anyone has remained a Christian with any sense of joy attached to themselves if they also believe in this doctrine as well. I feel as if you can’t be joyful, yet believe in EH at the same time without something really being wrong with you.

I wish I could get the fear of going to hell out of my system though, too. It may never leave. I am afraid of dying because if it is true that no matter what, God won’t let me out, then I’d rather never die than to face the possibility. Yet the very notion of EH is unfathomable to me.

On the flip side, I start wondering what the point of being a Christian is, if none is going to be lost permanently. One respondent mentioned a good reason - to save us from the 2nd death, which is not a pretty picture, but some form of judgment on the wicked will have to take place somehow. I am still trying to understand what a UR’s position is on what the 2nd death really entails, and that is kind of a loaded subject IMHO. LOL.

#8

I agree. If one really thinks about it, one would have to be sadistic to say he/she loves and desires to worship a God who will torment his/her loved ones forever. I’m not saying that all ECT Christians are sadistic, only that many avoid thinking about the consequences of what they confess.

Faith and repentance are still necessary. Saying that no one will be lost permanently does not remove the necessity of believing and being changed by the gospel. Eventually everyone will believe and repent, but why should one wait until he is experiencing more agonizing judgement to repent? Today is the day of salvation.

#9

Ladybug :slight_smile:


You are absolutely correct. Fear is NOT of God. You should watch this; it’s funny and dear and I found it very encouraging. One of the guys posted it on another thread; I forget who to give credit to, though. vimeo.com/55640429 There’s an intro which I thought quite good, plus the video I loved, “The Flaming Toilet of Death.”

Regarding the question, “If Jesus saves everyone anyway, why be a Christian?” Here’s a link to a discussion we’ve been having on that topic: What's the point?

#10

Oh Lady Bug and Cindy - I get it :laughing:

I’m English so what you call a Lady Bug is what I call a Lady Bird. It’s the same thing - simples. So Lady Bug is actually a very nice name :slight_smile:

#11

I just learned something new! :slight_smile:

Here’s something for you Lady:

Phil 4:6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

And a song: Peace

Take all your fears to God, and may His peace guard your heart and mind,
Sonia

#12

Hi Lady Bug.
I can address the hell-hole hoax quite well, as i looked into it last year (or the year before. i am terrible at measuring the passage of time). Here is the Wikipedia article, which basically summarised what i found:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_to_Hell_hoax

except it was worded more humourously where i found it, saying that the guy was trying to show how easy it was to get a lie across when those targetted wanted to believe it. it does say he included his phone number and address so they could seek verification. no one contacted him.

enjoy! it’s actually bloody hilarious in my opinion. :laughing: it just goes to show that the internet is full of pure rubbish!
it may be worth checking out the film that Wikipedia mentions too, though i saw a pre-release version (they were getting audience opinion) and it was hilariously awful…and i’m told they removed the funny bits for the real release lol

as for NDE’s…i’ve never credited them, personally. they tend to contradict or add to the perspective of the Bible (even from a fairly evangelical point of view, albeit a skeptical one, like mine used to be (i am mostly ex-evangelical now))

i have no doubt that the volcano story will prove as ridiculous as the hell-hole story.

just as a tip, if i find scary stuff online (sometimes i do this for fun, as i am a bit silly), i often google the story with the word hoax as well, or check snopes.com. quite a few of these stories have been discredited, or prove to have purely fictional origins that got out of hand.

it’s like that story you hear of a friend’s friend who owned a cobra, and one day they woke to find it lying next to them, straight up and down. they took it to the vet (as you do when a pet shows totally normal behaviour :stuck_out_tongue: ) and the vet said it needed to be put down, because it was measuring them to see if it could eat them.
obvious problems with this story include but are not limited to
a) owning a pet cobra may be illegal without a license, certainly in the UK…where special housing is required by law
b) so it follows that allowing one to go free-range with no supervision would be something not even an idiot would do
c) no snake in all of time has ever lain next to something to size it up
d) a snake lying next to you would be there because you are warm, not to eat you
there are other versions with less dangerous snakes, but still absolutely ridiculous.
this is just an example of the sort of rot that goes around and becomes “gospel truth” because everyone wants to believe it (people fear my beautiful reptiles :cry: ), it’s sensational, and requires no effort to believe. quite a lot like many standard evangelical doctrines, actually.

i might check that website out for a laugh, but the fact they listed the truly fraudulent (and provably so) hell-hole story as “evidence” proves they’re not worth your time or anyone else’s.

God is love. perfect love casts out fear, because fear has to do with punishment, and the only punishment God gives is to those He loves…and if He loves them, there is hope. God’s character as Love the Person is defined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13. anything that contradicts that is to my view a damnable heretic (but not permanently damnable of course) who puts the character of God into disrepute.

#13

:laughing: how very English of you, mate :wink:
it does depend if you like bugs or birds more :wink:

#14

I read somewhere that the voice frequency of the people screaming was in same range that was copied from each other,
which became fake, like this website: jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/s … m_hell.htm
the website author doesn’t even know what is the meaning of book of revelation that he wrote below:

Bible said hell is real that those who die in their sins without Christ as Savior will be tormented in the fires of Hell (Gehenna) forever (Revelation 20:11-15) this is after resurrection :smiley:
Who said resurrection already occurs that now there is Gehenna out there! first Jesus should come

He told us to preach the Good news, what is the Good news? the Kingdom of God with Hellfire Beside of it
that you can go out the city and see the wicked everyday (a thriller cinema movie with having popcorn)!!! :laughing:

what a beautiful Good news :smiley:

#15

Hi there Lady Bug,
We haven’t spoken before but I’m saddened to read of your distress and fears. Just a couple of verses that I think will cheer your journey:

Php 4:6 Don’t worry about anything, but in everything, through prayer and petition with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which surpasses every thought, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.
Php 4:8 Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable—if there is any moral excellence and if there is any praise—dwell on these things.

I think if we dwell on the loveliness of our Lord and the goodness of God reflected in these verses there’s no room for claptrap about hell. It’s inevitable if we dwell on darkness it overtakes our thinking. If we take our fears to Him I think He gives us a sense of peace and release - he’s not the author of Fear but of Love and Assurance. May He give you peace and an overwhelming sense of His boundless love.
S

#16

wait…you mean that isn’t the case??? but i was looking forward to that!!! :laughing:

#17

well said, my friend :slight_smile:

#18

Lady Bug

Practice this, it’s helpful and see how Word of God is in contrary to Doctrine of Hell:

The battle is between: “God says . . .” and “Satan says . . .”

• Satan says, “worry” . . . . . but God says, “Be not anxious for anything.”

• Satan says, “Gossip” . . . . but God says, “Love one another, bear one another burdens”

• Satan says, “Covet” . . . . . but God says, “Set your affections on things above”

• Satan says “Lust” . . . . . . . but God says, “Be ye holy for I am holy”

• Satan says “Be dissatisfied” … but God says, “Be content with such as ye have”

• Satan says, “Fear” . . . . . . but God says, “Fear not, peace I give unto you”

• Satan says “Defeat” . . . . . but God says, “Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world”

sounds good? :slight_smile: :wink:

#19

SLJ

love you Sonia :smiley:

#20

Ladybird, I urge you to seek God to alleviate your fears. He is pure LOVE. Jesus asked us to love our enemies and do good to those who unfairly treat us. Jesus is Another exactly like God. He is the exact imprint of God’s essence (Heb 1:3). Jesus said to Thomas, “Whoever has seen me, has seen the Father.” Did Jesus ever kill anyone? Did He ever torture anyone? Then God won’t either. He will do His very best for each individual, to correct him. No one will receive any greater discomfort than is absolutely necessary for his correction.

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. (Luke 6:35)

Jesus is clearly saying here that if we love our enemies we will be like God, our Father. Does He say that God will get revenge on evil and ungrateful people? NO! He says God is KIND to evil and ungrateful people.

It is very important to God that His people overcome their fears. For fear is crippling and renders us unable to carry out God’s will.
Here are some scriptures in which people are urged not to fear:

Mt 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mt 28:5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.
Lu 1:13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
Lu 1:30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
Lu 2:10 And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy that will be for all the people.
Lu 5:10 and so also were James and John, sons of Zebedee, who were partners with Simon. And Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching men.”
Lu 8:50 But Jesus on hearing this answered him, “Do not fear; only believe, and she will be well.”
Lu 12:7 Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows.
Lu 12:32 “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
Joh 12:15 “Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your king is coming, sitting on a donkey’s colt!”
Ac 27:24 and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before Caesar. And behold, God has granted you all those who sail with you.’
Re 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last.

#21

well said, Paidion…i loved this post.

#22

None of these seem to be real evidence. Stop worrying.

(Computer joke) I don’t see you as a bug, more an undocumented feature.

#23

That drillhole to hell hoax has long been refuted, it has even an article in wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_to_Hell_hoax

The rest of the claims made there are hardly more convincing, especially since there are NDEs in favor for various religions, contradicting each other. I have the impression that people in NDEs experience what they already believe or what they fear, I don’t believe that NDEs are genuine revelations but comparable with dreams.

There is this page, just to show you the other side of the coin, but I wouldn’t give anything on it.

near-death.com/experiences/origen021.html

If universalists would argue by NDEs infernalists would ridicule us, so why should we consider it as an argument?