The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Translational Skullduggery

So, while reading through Pete Enns blog the other day I followed a link to this website: isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/a … rsion-niv/

I’m going to repost the section from the NT, because some of the things in there are related to topics discussed here. Some of the more interesting ones have to do with the “helping” of the text to read more ‘trinitarianly’ although there are some other nuggets in here as well. Some of these items are not only confined to the NIV either, even though this article is primarily about that particular translation. The items I found most interesting I will bold, and perhaps comment on a few of them.

The New Testament

Matthew 1:4 — The NRSV correctly reads “Aram the father of Aminadab”. This appears to be a mistake on Matthew’s part, because Ram was the father of Aminadab according to 1 Chron. 2:10 (MT). The NIV corrects this verse to say “Ram” without so much as a footnote. (Note: The LXX says Ram and Aram were brothers, and that Aram was the father of Aminadab contra the MT, giving the NIV even less right to alter Matthew.)

Matthew 1:7 — The NRSV correctly reads “Abijah the father of Asaph”, which is what the oldest Greek manuscripts say. This appears to be a mistake on Matthew’s part, because Abijah was the father of Asa (1 Kings 15:8), not Asaph (a famous psalmist). The NIV corrects the verse to say “Asa” without so much as a footnote.

Matthew 1:10 — The NRSV correctly reads “Manasseh the father of Amos”, which is what the oldest Greek manuscripts say. This appears to be a mistake on Matthew’s part, because Manasseh was the father of Amon (2 Kings 21:18), not Amos, the famous prophet. The NIV corrects the verse to say “Amon” without so much as a footnote.

Matthew 2:11 — The NRSV correctly reads “and they knelt down and paid him homage.” The NIV has the magi worship Jesus instead of merely paying homage, most likely reflecting the piety of the translators and their audience: “and they bowed down and worshipped him.” The NIV does, however, correctly translate the same word (proskuneō) as “pay homage” in Mark 15:19, where the soldiers pay mock homage to Jesus as king. [See BeDuhn, Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament, pp. 44–45.]

Matthew 5:2 — The NIV takes surprising liberties here, omitting the phrase “he opened his mouth and…” found in all Greek manuscripts.

Matthew 13:32 — To avoid giving the impression that Jesus could make a botanical mistake, the NIV (1984 version) has added the word “your”: “Though it [the mustard seed] is the smallest of your seeds”. The NRSV correctly reads “it is the smallest of all the seeds”. (Note: This mistranslation was fixed in the 2011 revision of the NIV.)

Matthew 28:9, 17 — Here again, although the Greek text intends to convey homage and obeisance paid to Jesus by the disciples, the NIV cannot resist making the passage reflect the translators’ own piety and modern theology by having the disciples worship Jesus: “They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him” (verse 9). The YLT correctly reads “they did bow to him”.

Mark 1:10 — The Greek unmistakably says that the Spirit descended “into him” (Jesus), and critical exegesis of the text by scholars supports this meaning. However, due to the christological problems with this wording, the NIV and most other translations change it to “on him”. (cf. Edward P. Dixon’s discussion of the phrase in ‘Descending Spirit and Descending Gods: A “Greek” Interpretation of the Spirit’s “Descent as a Dove” in Mark 1:10’, JBL Vol. 128/4, 771–772.)

Mark 10:1 — The Greek actually says that Jesus went to the “region of Judaea beyond the Jordan”. This is a fairly obvious geographical error, since crossing the Jordan would put Jesus outside of Judaea. The NIV translates away the problem by saying that Jesus first went to Judaea and then crossed the Jordan. (Note: Most other English translations do something similar.)

Mark 14:12 — The NRSV correctly reads “On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed…” The NIV has, for reasons that are not clear, inserted the phrase “when it was customary” without textual warrant: “On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb…” It must be noted that the author of Mark is in error here, as the Passover lamb is actually sacrificed the day before the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Matthew is aware of this mistake and omits the mention of the Passover sacrifice in Mt. 26:17. Perhaps the translators of the NIV thought they could spin this passage by implying a custom at odds with standard Jewish practice. (If anyone else can think of another reason, please let me know.)

Mark 15:42 — The NRSV correctly reads “When evening had come, and since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath…”. This is an error, because the Jewish day starts in the evening, so it would already have been Sabbath. The NIV masks this error by altering the translation to read “So as evening approached…”

Luke 2:2 note [a] — The NIV offers an alternate reading in a footnote: “this census took place before Quirinius was governor of Syria.” Grammatically speaking, “before” is not a possible reading of the Greek text. However, the notion of an earlier, historically unattested census is sometimes proposed by apologists in order to harmonize the date of Jesus’ birth in Luke (6-7 CE under Quirinius) with Matthew’s account (under King Herod prior to 4 BCE). The mistranslation offered by the NIV as an alternate reading is almost certainly intended to support such a view. (For a discussion of the Greek, see Carrier, “The Date of the Nativity”.)

Luke 2:25, 11:13 — The Greek text here quite clearly says “a holy spirit” (pneuma ēn] hagion) in both these verses. However, the NIV (and nearly all other English translations) forces a trinitarian interpretation by translating it as “the Holy Spirit” with the definite article and capitalization.

Hmmm.

John 1:19 — The NRSV correctly reads ‘This is the testimony given by John when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”’ The NIV here and throughout John changes “Jews” (Greek ioudaioi) to “Jewish leaders” to tone down the wording of these passages, which might be construed as antisemitic by some. (See “Which Jews Opposed Jesus?” by Joel Hoffman on the topic.)

John 6:63 — The NRSV correctly reads “it is the spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” The Greek word for spirit, pneuma, also means “breath” or “wind” and refers simply to the animating essence of living bodies.** However, the NIV capitalizes “Spirit” and adds the definite article “the” in order to import trinitarian doctrine into the verse**, which changes its meaning in a way not justified by the Greek: “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.” [See BeDuhn, Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament, pp. 145–146.]

John 8:58 — The NIV, eager to connect this text to the theophany of Exodus 3:14, mistranslates the tense of ego eimi in its grammatical context, despite translating the same forms correctly elsewhere. The Living Bible actually captures the meaning best among English translations: “I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!” The NIV’s ungrammatical translation reads “Before Abraham was born, I am!” [See BeDuhn, pp. 104–112.]

John 10:34 — The NIV puts quotation marks around the word “gods” to imply that the word should not be understood in the normal sense. This also happens to be a quotation of Psalm 82:6, where the NIV does the same thing, without any textual justification.

John 18:40 — Barabbas is described in Mark and Luke as a murderer who took part in an uprising. John 18:40, however, describes him as a robber (λῃστής, lestes) — the NRSV reads “Now Barabbas was a bandit.” The NIV has rewritten this verse, however, to reflect what is said in Mark and Luke: “Now Barabbas had taken part in an uprising.”

John 20:22 — Again, the NIV translates “a holy spirit” as “the Holy Spirit”, imposing a trinitarian interpretation on the text.

I’m beginning to see a pattern here…

John 21:5 — In this resurrection appearance, Jesus calls out to his disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, calling them “little children” (παιδία, paidia) and asking if they have any fish. For some reason, the NIV translates this as “friends” instead, but according to Greek lexicons, this word refers only to young children or, in some cases, young slaves. It always means “children” where it appears in the Bible. Judy Stack-Nelson suggests that the NIV is trying to harmonize this verse with John 15:15, in which Jesus tells the disciples he will from now on call them “friends”, for which he uses an entirely different Greek word (φίλους, philous).

Acts 1:4 — The resurrected Jesus is described as commanding the disciples not to leave Jerusalem. However, this would contradict Mark and Matthew, in which the disciples are told to wait for him in Galilee. The NIV weakens the implications of Jesus’ command by adding the phrase “on one occasion” to the text: “On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command.” This phrase is not in the Greek text.

Acts 2:4 — The NRSV correctly reads “All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages”. The NIV uses the theologically loaded term “tongues” instead, even though the Greek word simply means “languages”.

Acts 5:32 — Here and in several other New Testament verses (John 14:26, Ephesians 4:30 and 1 Corinthians 6:19), the NIV has translated the neuter relative pronoun ho as “who/whom”, even though “which” is the only grammatically valid translation, in order to emphasize the personhood of the Holy Spirit. Regardless of whether the NIV translators’ theology is correct, this is a biased and linguistically unjustifiable translation. [See BeDuhn, pp. 139–143.]

Acts 7:53 — The NRSV correctly reads “You are the ones that received the law as ordained by angels”, but the NIV alters the verse slightly to obscure this strange view of angels: “you who have received the law that was given through angels”.

Acts 13:50, 17:5, 18:12, 18:28, 20:3, 20:19, 21:11, 21:27, 23:12, 23:20, 26:21 — The phrase “the Jews” (ho Ioudaios) appears frequently in Acts. Although it should not be taken to mean all Jews, it is often used to identify Paul’s opponents. However, the NIV has altered this phrase wherever it has negative implications. In most such instances, the NIV adds the word “some”, making the text read “some Jews” or “some of the Jews”. In 18:12, the words “of Corinth”, which are not in the Greek text, have been added. In 18:28 and 20:19, “the Jews” has been changed to “Jewish opponents” (the Greek does not say “opponents”). In 13:50 and 21:11, the phrase has been changed to “Jewish leaders” (the Greek does not say “leaders”).

Acts 22:9 — The NRSV correctly says that Paul’s companions “did not hear the voice” of the one speaking to Paul, but the NIV has changed this to “did not understand the voice” to hide the contradiction with the account in chapter 9.

Romans 2:6 — The NIV translates ergon (ἔργον) inconsistently throughout the epistles, using the direct translation “works” when the connotation is negative but other phrases when it is positive. The ESV here reads “He will render each one according to his works,” but the NIV says “…according to what they have done”. See the entries on James below for a fuller explanation.

Romans 3:21–26 — The NIV engages in some theological trickery here. It changes “righteousness of God” to “righteousness from God” in v. 21, eliminates the mention of God from v. 22, and changes “righteousness” in vv. 25 and 26 (the same Greek word as in vv. 21 and 22) to “justice” in order to imply that this passage is talking about the righteousness of believers rather than the righteousness of God. (Note: the error in v. 21 was fixed in the 2005 TNIV, and vv. 25 and 26 were fixed in the 2011 revision of the NIV. The omission in v. 22 remains.)

This one has some interesting tie-in implications to universalism.

Romans 7:18 — The NIV here translates σάρξ (sarx) as “sinful nature” even though this implies later Augustinian doctrine on original sin that is not intended by the original writer. In contrast, the NRSV correctly chooses to translate this tricky Pauline term more literally as “flesh”. (See this article by Jason Staples on the subject.)

Romans 7:25 — The opening line correctly reads in the NRSV as “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!” For some reason, the NIV adds the phrase “who delivers me”, even though this is not found in the Greek text: “Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!” The rest of this verse is also suspect: the NIV translates “in the flesh” (τῇ σαρκὶ) as “in my sinful nature” even though this makes a theological statement about the meaning of “the flesh” not warranted by the Greek text. “So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.” (Note: Prior to the 2011 revision of the NIV, “flesh” σάρξ] was translated as “sinful nature” dozens of times throughout the epistles. The translators have since acknowledged and corrected this error in most places, but this verse remains the same.)

Romans 16:7 — The NIV (1984 version) changes the female apostle Junia into a man, “Junias”, due to a bias against women being counted as apostles of early Christianity. (Note: This translation was fixed in the 2011 revision of the NIV.)

1 Corinthians 4:9 — The NIV adds a great deal of elaboration not found in the Greek text: “For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena.” The NIV’s additions are in italics. (See Bruce Metzger, The Bible in Translation, p. 80.)

1 Corinthians 7:20–21 — The Greek of verse 21 by itself is ambiguous, but in context with v. 20 clearly intends to say that slaves should remain slaves. (See John Chrysostom, Homily 19.) The NIV (and most other English translations) prefers to translate it with the opposite meaning—that Paul encourages slaves to gain their freedom.

1 Corinthians 11:4–7a — The NIV offers a long footnote with an alternate translation of these verses, replacing multiple instances of “head covering” with “long hair”, which has no support in the Greek text. This appears to be an attempt to accommodate churches that do not require head coverings for women but want to think their practices are strictly in accordance with Scripture. (See Bible Researcher for a discussion of this passage.)

1 Corinthians 14:12 — The Greek text literally reads “since you strive zealously for spirits” (πνευμάτων, pneumatōn), but the NIV changes “spirits” to “spiritual gifts”, which fits the theology of many Protestant denominations but is not what the verse actually says. (See Joseph A. Fitzmyer, First Corinthians [Anchor Yale Bible Commentary], 2008, p. 515.)

Not sure what to make of that, but it’s interesting.

1 Corinthians 16:13 — The Greek text literally exhorts readers to “be men”. The NASB, for example, reads, “be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.” To avoid any gender specificity, the NIV has changed this to “be courageous”.

Galatians 1:8 — The Greek says “let him be accursed”, but the NIV reads “let him be eternally condemned!”, a theological interpretation that is not justified by the text. (Note: The 2011 version has changed this verse to say “let them be under God’s curse”, which is only somewhat better. The Greek does not say “God’s curse”, and this phrase is grammatically poor, lacking agreement between “them” and its antecedents. This might be an example of the 2011 NIV’s clumsy attempts at gender-neutral translation.)

Or also, they could (again) be trying to force a more ECT translation here.

Galatians 1:16b — In the Greek, Paul says “I did not confer with any human being” at the beginning of his ministry. The NIV changes this to “my immediate response was not to consult any human being.” Nothing in the original text corresponds to “my immediate response”; rather, the NIV appears to be reinterpreting the text to harmonize it with the rather different account of Paul’s conversion in Acts.

Galatians 3:5 — This enigmatic verse literally reads “He, therefore, who is supplying to you the Spirit, and working mighty acts among you — [is it] by works of law or by the hearing of faith?” (YLT) The NIV gives a Protestant interpretation of this passage that obscures the actual wording and other potential interpretations: “does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?” (Note: Most other English translations have the same problem.)

Galatians 3:19 — The NRSV correctly reads “[the law] was ordained through angels by a mediator.” The NIV has changed this to say “the law was given to angels and entrusted to a mediator”, adding the word “entrust” and reversing the role of the mediator in Paul’s statement.

Ephesians 2:3 — The NRSV correctly reads “we were by nature children of wrath”. The NIV has taken considerable liberties in its translation, echoing Protestant theories of sin and atonement in doing so: “we were by nature deserving of wrath.” The genitive could be translated as “destined for wrath”, but no equivalent to “deserving” can be found in the Greek, and “children” has been omitted. (Source: Larkin, Ephesians: A Handbook on the Greek Text, p. 30)

Penal Sub., anyone?

Ephesians 2:20–22 — The Greek says “you are being constructed into a habitation of God in spirit (en pneumati)”, but the NIV interprets this as “in the Spirit” (i.e. the Holy Spirit) without textual warrant. [See BeDuhn, p. 151.] Throughout the epistles, the NIV shows a theological bias to translate “in spirit” as “in the (Holy) Spirit” wherever possible.

More Trinitarian trickery?

Ephesians 6:18 — The Greek says to pray “in spirit” (en pneumati), perhaps meaning silently rather than out loud. However, the NIV interprets this as “in the Spirit” (i.e. the Holy Spirit). [See BeDuhn, p. 148.]

Interesting.

**Philippians 2:6 — The NIV changes the Greek, which is correctly translated by the NRSV as “though he was in the form of God”, to say “being in very nature God”, ** a speculative interpretation of “form of God” that is unwarranted by the original text.

This is starting to look bad for the Trinitarians.

Colossians 1:15 — The NRSV correctly reads “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation”. The NIV has replaced “of” with “over”, even though this is not at a valid meaning of the Greek preposition pasēs. The obvious reason is to hide the problematic theology of Jesus being described as a created being.

Oh dear…

Colossians 1:19 — The NIV has added “his” in front of “fullness”, to shape the interpretation of this verse in a certain way not indicated by the text: “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him.” The Greek simply says “the fullness”.

These guys don’t have an agenda or anything, do they? :wink:

2 Thessalonians 2:15, 3:6 — The NIV engages in some vocabulary trickery here. The word paradosis, meaning “tradition”, gets translated inconsistently in order to de-Catholicize the Bible’s theology. When the context is negative, as in the “human traditions” of Colossians 2:8 or the traditions of the Pharisees in Matthew 15:1–6, “tradition” is used. When the context is positive, as in these two instances — which read “the teachings we passed on to you” and “the teachings you received from us”, respectively — the NIV uses the word “teachings”. The NRSV, by contrast, consistently and correctly translates this word as “tradition”. (See this article at Shameless Popery for a discussion of the topic.)

1 Timothy 3:2 — The RSV correctly reads “Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife.” For some reason, the NIV has obscured the possibility of polygamy by changing it to “Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife”.

LOL. I think the author got the explanation reversed here. It seems to me that the NIV change opens it more up to polygamy, not less!

1 Timothy 3:16 — The NIV again mistranslates “in spirit” (en pneumati) as “in the Spirit” (i.e. the Holy Spirit), which is not warranted by the Greek text.

Really guys? Come on now…

Titus 2:11 — The Greek literally says that “the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people”, and reads as such in most translations (including the NRSV, ESV, NET, CEB, NLT, and NASB). Various Greek lexicons agree that σωτήριος (sōterios) should be understood as meaning “bringing salvation”. However, the NIV says the grace of God “offers salvation to all people”, which prevents the verse from being used in support of universal salvation. The qualifying verb “offers” is not in the Greek.

Aha! Caught you, you anti-universalist translators you! (Something might possibly be said about free-will here as well, but it’s a bit oblique).

Hebrews 1:5 — The NRSV correctly reads “You are my Son; today I have begotten you”. For unclear reasons, the NIV has changed it slightly to read “You are my Son; today I have become your father”.

Hebrews 6:1 — The NIV for some reason changes “dead works” to “acts that lead to death”, forcing a narrow and probably incorrect interpretation on the text.

James 2:14 — The NRSV correctly reads “What good is it … if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?” The NIV harmonizes this verse with Protestant theology by adding the word “such” without textual justification: “What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?” (Note: most other English translations also alter the passage.) The NIV also deceptively translates ergon as “deeds” here, even though it translates the same word as “works” when the connotation is negative, in order to tone down passages that appear to promote works in addition to faith. (See also the entry on James 2:17–18 below.)

Whoah…

**James 2:17-18, 20, 22, 24-26 **— The NIV translates ergon, meaning “works”, inconsistently throughout the epistles in order to push the Bible’s theology on faith and works in a Protestant direction. In negative contexts (e.g. Romans 3:27), the NIV translates it as “works” almost without exception. However, it avoids any positive association with the word “works” in verses like James 2:24, which has been translated, “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone”, and James 2:26, “so faith without deeds is dead.” The NRSV is more consistent and theologically neutral, translating it as “works” in all these passages. James 2:25 is a particularly egregious example: while the Greek text literally says Rahab was “justified (dikaioō) by works (ergon)”, the NIV translation says Rahab was “considered righteous for what she did”, even though the NIV is happy to translate dikaioo and ergon as “justified” and “works” in passages like Romans 3:28 (“For we maintain that a person is justified (dikaioō) by faith apart from the works (ergon) of the law.”) Theology aside, the NIV’s translation of ergon as the phrase “what they do” in v. 24 is also a clumsy attempt at avoiding gender-specific pronouns.

James 2:25 — The Greek mentions the visit of ἀγγέλους (angelous), or “messengers”, to Rahab the prostitute. The NIV changes this word to “spies”, although that is not a valid translation of angelous. The only obvious reason for the change is to make this verse adhere more closely to the story in Joshua 2. (See the entry above for other problems with the NIV’s translation of this verse.)

1 Peter 1:17 — The NRSV correctly reads “If you invoke as Father the one who judges all people impartially according to their deeds…” Because this verse suggests that people are judged by God according to their works, contra Protestant theology, the NIV changes the wording to mean something slightly different: “Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially…”

1 Peter 3:18–19 — The NIV again mistranslates “in spirit” (en pneumati) as “in the Spirit” (i.e. the Holy Spirit), which is not warranted by the Greek text.

They sure messed with this one a lot…

1 Peter 3:21 — The NRSV correctly reads “And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”. Because this conflicts with Protestant theology on baptism, the NIV has changed “appeal to God for a good conscience” to “pledge of a clear conscience toward God”, which has a very different meaning.

1 Peter 4:6 — This enigmatic passage correctly reads in the NRSV as “For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead”. The possibility of salvation after death obviously conflicts with Evangelical theology, so the NIV has changed it to read “For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead.”

Yep. Trying to avoid the possibility of post-mortem salvation, weren’t we?

Jude 1:7 — The Greek states that Sodom, Gomorrah and the surrounding cities “serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.” In other words, the fiery destruction of those cities serves as a warning for immoral behaviour. However, the NIV has subtly altered the verse to suggest it is individuals who suffer eternal fiery torment: “They serve an example to those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.” This provides an explicit proof-text for a doctrine of eternal hellfire that is otherwise lacking in the epistles.

Another strike against ECT scripture fudgers, IMO.

Jude 1:8 — The NIV has taken remarkable liberties with the text, changing “dreamers” (an allusion to Deut. 13) to “ungodly people” who act “on the strength of their dreams”. None of these words appear in the Greek.

As you can see, quite a number of these had a Trinitarian focus or implication. What does this mean? Well, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Trinitarian doctrine is wrong/ unbiblical, but it certainly speaks against it at least in terms of some trying to dishonestly force it into the text via translational trickery where it doesn’t actually appear.

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Now THAT is an interesting post, thanks. I’ll be interested to see comments.

And that’s just the NT. If you follow the link, there’s a whole list from the OT as well. I personally don’t think the OT ones are quite as interesting though.

Yeah, there are some translation decisions that make a difference.

Busy elsewhere, but a lot of those complaints are pretty dang trivial. :unamused: e.g., the Spirit descending on Jesus instead of into Jesus is somehow a Christologically superior option??? And Greek doesn’t have a distinct indirect article, so the lack of a direct article doesn’t mean what we would call a direct article (“the”) isn’t implied, so “the” holy spirit for holy spirit isn’t necessarily a wrong translation. That’s a questoin of narrative and thematic context: one way or another if the spirit is the spirit of the Father then it’s the one and only spirit of God Most High, and might as well be called “the spirit of the holy” or “the spirit the holy”, completely aside from trinitarian theology. (On the other hand, some of the non-article holy spirit references could involve a mere spirit of holiness; they admittedly don’t all have to be read as The Holy Spirit, whether in a trinitarian sense or otherwise.)

Still, trivial or not, I find them interesting. I like to know why decisions are made.
And personally I’m not looking to open a trinitarian or a Trinitarian debate - really - there’s been a lot of that already. I am just interested in the why’s. I am fascinated by the why’s.

Well, right; and as I said, it really doesn’t prove anything except that the translators of the NIV clearly had some theological agendas that caused them to play rather fast and loose with some key translations (yes, most of the “holy spirit” ones were minor). Not that they were the only ones who did this, clearly.
“Why” is always an interesting question, and can often tell you more than “what”.

It is a mistake to ascribe some of this “translational skullduggery” to the NIV and other translations.

I will deal with just one example of the many instances of “skullduggery” which you posted:

How does the author KNOW that it should be “into” instead of “on”? I know of not a single translator who renders the phrase as “into him”.

It is true that some Greek New Testaments have the Greek word for “into” in this verse.

Greek New Testaments: Westcott-Hort, Tischendorf: εις αυτον (into him)

But others have “on”:

Textus Receptus, Codex Sinaiticus : επ’ αυτον (on him)

The verse doesn’t occur in any extant Greek manuscript prior to 300 A.D. None of the existing papyri prior to that year contain it.
I am not sure about Codex Alexandrinus or Codex Vaticinus. It took me a long time to find it in Codex Sinaiticus.

I think the author has looked for every possible means to discredit the NIV. I highly doubt that the NIV translators “deliberately” altered the text.
I think they honestly tried to render the Greek into modern English to the best of their ability.

It would probably take me months to address each one of the NT passages of which the author accused the NIV translators of deliberately altering the text. If there is one or two of them you would like me to research, I might be able to do so. But all of them?——— too much time required.

So it is impossible to know what the translation should be?

I can’t tell you whether or not it is impossible. But there seems to be nothing definite.

Also I have no idea what source manuscripts Westcott-Hort and Tischendorf used to obtain their “εις αυτον” (into him).

Well, I’m not going to impute bad motives to the translators of the NIV; but the ‘why’ of their choices, that seem to obey certain doctrinal presuppositions, is interesting to me. And that holds for other translations as well, I’m sure.

Mel kind of was, since that’s the explicit context he posted the giant wall of examples in. :wink:

What I got through this morning before lunch:

Re: the Matthean ancestor list, whether the NIV has footnotes on things or not, like just about any translation, depends on the edition. The 1970s NASB (still in wide print) shows Ram, but my edition corrects to the original Greek in a footnote for example, but not every version of the NASB in print would include footnotes at all, and some don’t include all the footnotes other editions do. (Matthew meanwhile was no doubt working from a professional scribal list – geneaological tracking being important business in 1st century Palestine – which could nevertheless contain errors. His telescoping of the list to fit a mystical number pattern is more problematic, though even then that wouldn’t be so much of a problem if he didn’t try to call attention to it as though it was important!)

But the only NIV I own is an interlinear Hebrew OT, so maybe every version of the NIV (the single most widely adapted version in English for the past umpteen years) omits a clarifying footnote there; I have no idea.

Re: Matt 2:11, and similar verses – you can blame 1st century Greek for that. The terms involved were interchangeable for religious or lesser honor. Strictly speaking the NIV is just as correct to translate as “worship” as other translations to try for a more prosaic translation according to modern usage – either way the real debate is how far it makes narrative and thematic sense for a particular person or group to be paying religious homage to Jesus in various circumstances. The soldiers had no reason at all to pay even fake religious worship to Jesus during the mockery; the Magi might well have had more of a clue, or have been more inclined to do so from their pagan cultural perspective (whether they were from Chaldea as the term would suggest, or from Sabaea (Sheba) as the historical/narrative contexts and the gifts would suggest.)

Re: Matt 5:2, the NIV is meant to be a dynamic equivalent translation, which means they’ll sometimes sacrifice redundant trivial phrases for stylistic smoothness. That isn’t a “surprising liberty” in context of their operational goals, and the omission of “he opened his mouth and” makes exactly no difference to the meaning.

Ditto 13:32 and the seeds – the rhetorical style of the original statement doesn’t have to involve a categorization of all seeds on the planet throughout all history; it only has to involve all the seeds known by the audience, and that would be the implied context of Jesus’ meaning. (Leaving aside whether the mustard plant was actually the smallest local seed!) The NIV isn’t avoiding giving the impression of a botanical mistake, it’s avoiding someone reading a science claim into a statement where one didn’t originally exist.

Mark 10:1 – this only has to mean Israel was holding both sides of the ford by extending the Judaean territory slightly across the river, a point that the Herodian family (coming from Idumea originally) would have been specially positioned to accomplish. In any case the Greek does not say “beyond the Jordan” (except in late texts which talk about Jesus going through to the other side) but rather “in(to) the boundaries of Judea of the Jordan.” The original phrasing doesn’t have to mean Jesus even crossed the Jordan River; but in the current political situation the other side could have easily been an outpost of Judean control for several miles. This is aside from the question of whether the territory from which Joshua launched his campaign against Canaan generally and nearby Jericho more specifically was traditionally counted in Judah’s portion of land; I suspect so, although I don’t know for sure, and this might mirror a point the Synoptics tacitly make of Jesus touring the extents of the territory traditionally understood to be part of God’s promise to the nation, including Tyre and Sidon and (implicitly) the circle route from there to Damascus and south past Hermon into the region of Trachonitis and Itrurea – at the time of Jesus held by Herod’s brother Philip and, notably, also beyond the Jordan (though far to the north from Jericho of course). The territorial claims involved are still generating conflict between Israel and her neighbors, even literally today when I’m writing this post.

Mark 15:42 – there are a lot of super-weird grammatic issues and timing problems among the Synoptics and in comparison with GosJohn, most likely stemming from three issues: a Passover celebration (treated as a sabbath) pushing up onto a normal sabbath; the logistical nightmare of trying to process hundreds of thousands of lamb sacrifices within the bounds of a set timeframe; and Jesus choosing to hold His passover service one night early, which (along with covertly letting Iscariot know about him spying for the Sanhedrin) would panic the Sanhedrin into trying to arrest Jesus before instead of after the passover after all – because a rabbi can only hold the service one night early in emergency circumstances where he fully expects to be unable to hold it the proper night, the most culturally honored and relevant example in Jesus’ day being the rebellion of the Maccabee family against their pagan occupiers! (I wrote up a three-part discussion of these harmonization issues here at the Cadre for Easter 2013.) Anyway, just about any translation chosen by any edition is going to either look unwieldy or be grammatically incorrect to the original text.

Besides which, the Greek of Mark 15:42 says evening was already coming, {êdê opsias genomenês}, not that evening had already started. Strictly speaking the NRSV is wrong, the NIV right on this one, though it might work either way I suppose.

Luke 2:2, Cyrenius/Quirinius was already joint-ruling Syria’s province in Herod’s day (as can be independently established from other archeological evidence), which would explain any error on Luke’s part here to be when the Great Census occurred. This assumes there weren’t local trial attempts previously in client states to test out how best to go about it, especially in a hostile client state like Israel generally (despite Herod’s personal support of and friendship with Augustus) – but that would be the rational way to proceed, especially since Rome had never done anything this extensive before. A preliminary census is held in the days of the Great, as part of Augustus’ plan to do a census for taxing his whole empire; only Israel is affected (and maybe other selected client states); results and methods are used later in the Great Census; to which the little prior census is topically attached. Luke is demonstrably a very careful historian when it comes to these kinds of things, so granting him the benefit of a plausible harmonization attempt would be standard operating procedure on literally any other ancient historian analysis.

This is aside from whether {prôtê}, which does grammatically attach as an adjective to {hê apographê}, can or cannot refer to a preliminary census, though I think it can – it does mean before-most, a superlative form of before or prior (with modifications to fit with “the census” grammatically of course). By the same token, it could also refer to the Great Census as an honorific emphasis, as we might say “foremost”. The grammar can work either way, though not exactly to translate as “before Kurenios became governor” – that’s technically wrong, “before” can’t fit there, but it still represents one possible gist of the actual phrasing. They aren’t wrong to be translating the term “before” or “prior” anyway.

Luke 2:25 – aside from the usual trivialities of complaining about including a direct article in English as though Greek lacking a direct article excludes a direct article (as it would in English), this is even more of a trivial complaint about supposed cheating in the translation. 2:25 does read “and spirit was holy on him” (meaning on Simon) {kai pneuma ên hagion ep’auton} – with later texts flipping the “was” around in the word order a bit to put “spirit holy” next to one another – but the very next verse says “the spirit the holy” had previously revealed to him that he would see the Messiah of God. So it’s hardly skullduggery to translate “spirit” being “holy” on Simon, in direct and immediate topical connection to “the spirit the holy” revealing this to Simon previously, as “the” holy spirit. That’s simply nearby context.

Luke 11:13 – while the original text almost surely read {pneuma hagion} (there’s quite an interesting spread here, including a papyrus reading {pneuma agathon}, but the widest and generally earliest texts including another papyrus have the normal reading), and while Jesus could have been grammatically translated (by Luke’s report) to mean that the Father would give a holy spirit to those who ask Him, if Jesus elsewhere demonstrably talks about “the” holy spirit being given by the Father as a gift, it’s at least as good of a guess that Jesus means the same thing here (completely aside from a trinitarian meaning of the Holy Spirit).

More later but generally the complaints are of this sort.

Yeah, I wasn’t really looking to start another Trin-debate here; there are already enough of those on the board! I just thought it was interesting how many of the examples in this collection intersected with it in some way, and seemed to show a definite bias in that direction. Even the original author notes that the NIV translators were not the only ones who did this in some of the examples.
I guess my biggest beef with the NIV has always been with its inconsistency, which is frustrating due to the popularity of the translation.

Okay. Like I said, it is not the trin vs Trin thing that interested me. It’s the presupposition behind translation decisions.

Well all translations, particularly of historical documents in ancient language forms are also interpretations, it is the most basic form of interpretation, the word used say for a spoon in another language isn’t their version of English spoon but a wholly different word which might have further meanings that are quite different to how spoon works embedded in the matrix of the English. Work that further, with the documents also written in a very different culture and societies to our own (so not just a different language) with understandings, meanings and a form of shared understanding(s) and imagery and views on reality means there is a whole sea of meaning and intent being conveyed beyond just the text itself. Add to this specific personal perspectives and styles of the writer and trying to understand it and internal group understanding and shared context within which that language operates all with distance of time and fragmentary data (limited amount of writing in that same language from the same time, cultures, different social circles, literary styles and other inter-relating context means even as this data is improving with research, new and better study of text, new inscriptions found and systematic and holistic studies into this evidence improves this it still remains that translation is also providing an interpretation. This is true not only in biblical documents but all historical document translation.

The translators inevitably bring what they think the text is saying into their translation, so the NIV believed that the writers meant the above due to their doctrinal beliefs, and their interpretation of the texts reflect that. To what extent that is legitimate from the text in conjunction with wider context in which both texts and language functioned would be for NT and late Hellenistic and Greco-Roman and 1st Temple Jewish Greek scholars, translators and historians to comment on.

So far the presupposition has demonstrably been “checking narrative contexts and making things easier for reading audiences so long as the meaning isn’t changed”.

Which, especially for a dynamic equivalence theory translation, is pretty doctrinally neutral.

The worst demonstrable affront so far has nothing at all to do with promoting trinitarianism, but only harmonizing Matthew’s geneaology list. Which still fits the category of “checking narrative contexts”, though in a way that makes Matt’s work neater than it actually was. That could be considered a presupposition in favor of one form of inerrancy rather than another I guess.

I’m not the world’s biggest fan of the NIV, but the original author’s complaints are based more on his own presuppositional bias against ortho-trin and in favor of conspiracy theories. Anyone familiar with translational issues and interpretative hermeneutics (and textual criticism in some cases) will recognize these examples have nothing to do with a trinitarian conspiracy.

Notice: I, the hyper-orthodox trinitarian, am not appealing to a single one of these disputed translations or interpretations so far on the grounds of them being important for ortho-trin. On the contrary I’m typically talking about their neutrality to that issue. Who exactly is it who is insistently bringing the ortho-trin topic into the dispute over these verses?

Not me, I don’t think. It’s not an argument I wish to have. I’ve stated that, and I mean that. Ok? I like underlining too. :smiley:
Any time there is a doctrinal presupposition that influences a translation, no matter what the subject, it is good to know. Most of the time it is just nit-picky, I guess, but I still have this naive view that someone should be able to pick up a bible and not be influenced in important matters by the translator. It is naive, I know that.

Then again, I’ve never had to translate anything, so slack has been cut…

Well, I’ve argued that so far the translational/interpretative issues have nothing to do with salting in favor of ortho-trin, and you keep replying, yeah but it’s good to know where the translational biases are like in these verses. :unamused:

Shall I give an example of orthodox and proto-orthodox Fathers salting the verses in question so far? Going back as far as Justin Martyr and Tatian’s Diatesseron, up as far as the 9th century Isho’dad of Merv (WHO HAS THE WACKIEST PATRISTIC NAME EVER! :mrgreen: ), there’s a tradition of adding some reference to flashing light to GosMatt’s baptism scene, which by itself wouldn’t be much of an addition (considering what’s already there) but the traditions like to extend that pretty far. A couple of Latin manuscripts, one Old Italian and the other a Vulgate, even include a version of the light flash (though without much upgrade other than making the onlookers afraid) between verses 3:15 and 3:16.

A little more pertinently to textual transmission, there are no less than three principle versions of GosMatt 1:16, describing Jesus’ relation to the family of Joseph. One is the standard of course; #2 emphasizes Mary’s virginity (though that doesn’t really add anything because the text says that explicitly elsewhere); #3, attested pretty steadily by the Siniatic Syriac manuscripts, reads that Joseph, to whom the virgin Mary was betrothed, begot Jesus who is called the Christ. A miraculous virgin birth (as almost any non-trinitarian who accepts miracles agrees, or even who doesn’t accept miracles) doesn’t necessarily land in ortho-trin territory exclusively, though; and it’s quite clear from the relative datings, text-families, and language spreads, that option #3, or even #2, couldn’t be the original phrasing. So there’s still no trinitarian conspiracy there. The verb for “birth” {genesis} however in verse 18 was apparently tampered with fairly early and prevalently, no doubt in response to the Arian controversy, to read the slightly different but more technical term {gennêsis} instead. This may still be in Textus Receptus-based Bibles, not sure, but generally modern Bibles know which term was earlier and go with the more prosaic term even though it could be appealed to by non-trinitarians.

Which is to say, I’m not ignorant that salting does happen. But it isn’t as prevalent in modern Bibles as critics like to suggest.

Going back to the “in/on” baptism language for the descent of the Holy Spirit in/on Jesus in GosMark: if anything {eis auton} “in(to) him” would slightly support trinitarian theism more because it would tend to run against the notion of the dove being a literal dove landing on Jesus and people being mistaken about what that meant! But of course the descent of the Spirit this way, regardless of in(to) or (up)on Jesus, has always been appealed to by any theology trying to demonstrate, in effect, the substantial difference between the Son and the Spirit. Trinitarians (and modalists for that matter) would want to make it a lot clearer the Son and the Spirit had always been substantially united. There is no trinitarian conspiracy here between in and on – either term causes problems trinitarians necessarily have to defend against.

What translating {eis} as {ep} actually is, is a modern example of an ancient harmonization tendency, to tweak Mark and Luke to be more in favor of Matthew’s language, which just as textually solidly reads {ep’auton}. Luke 3:22, incidentally, just as solidly reads “on him” (though there’s a lot of minor variation about what God says about this, mainly assimilating either to GosMatt’s version or Psalm 2:7).

That doesn’t mean trinitarians don’t make positive use of the baptism scene; we do, but it’s mainly for the limited purpose of noting the apparent distinction of persons involved, not only between the Father and the Son (against modalism), but between the Spirit and (at least) the Son (maybe also the Father). Apologists can and do lean far too heavily on this, of course. But I don’t know of any skullduggery in translating the texts for that purpose.

Okay, back to the list, wherever I was at. :slight_smile: If I recall correctly there is at least a little trinitarian salting somewhere down there; I’ll get to it eventually.

Strictly speaking, the verse occurs in all manuscripts which aren’t damaged around here, right?

The TR is definitely following the Imperial Byzantine textform which is (mostly) superlate, and I’m not sure whether the (recently released) 28th edition of the Nestle-Aland apparatus indicates the Majority (i.e. Byzantine + ) textforms actually include {ep} or just note it in the margin for parallel reference purposes. The UBS mentions no variations at all. 28NA indicates that a lot of texts show {ep} as a marginal note, but not in the text itself, including Aleph, A, K, L, P, W, Gamma, Delta, Phi, a handful of other Greek unicals and miniscules, the Syriac texts generally, and Maj.

Admittedly, it’s hard for me to believe that all of these (especially the vastly huge Maj/Byz text-set) put the term in the margin as a parallel notation. :confused:

The solid attestation of {ep} in GosMatt and GosLuke, though, would weigh proportionately strongly on {eis} being the original wording in almost any case of {eis} being even moderately well attested in GosMark. But as far as the apparatus goes, the only question seems to be whether the term shows up as a marginal note or not.

:unamused:

To quote a famous man: :unamused: