What laws are Christians obligated to obey?

[Origen]

The apostle to the Gentiles said:

"For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. (Galatians 5:1)
“All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” (1 Cor 6:12)
Gal.5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:18 But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Are Christians or Gentiles obligated to follow Jesus’ words here:

17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…(Matthew 5)

Or was the law given to Israel, not the Gentile nations? And Jesus only speaking to those of Israel:

Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Why should Gentiles or Christians be under any obligations to OT laws? Or anything Jesus said in the 4 gospels? Or any other NT writings addressed to Israelites or Jews?

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Well, here are answers from the Calvinist perspectives, at Got Questions and CARM

carm.org/christians-bound-by-law
gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Randy, if you are not a Calvinist, why are you always directing people to Calvinist interpretations?

Simple. I think both CARM and Got Questions, provide good Biblical answers to questions. Or at least they give us, a good starting point for discussions.

Actually, philosophical, theological and scientific ideas, can come from many sources. And we don’t have to agree, with their overall theology. Once I even quoted the answer of Jehovah Witnesses - as one of the different answers, to a Biblical and theological discussion here (i.e. see Satan and Revelations).

http://rs73.pbsrc.com/albums/i227/kahlia124/calvinism_large-708213.gif~c200

How about a song regarding Calvinism - to lighten things up

[Paidion]

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. (Galatians 5:1)

Paul is here speaking of being set free from the law of Moses. That’s why he wrote Galatians. There were certain people who had gotten into the fellowship who were trying to get them to submit again to the law of Moses.

Christians are submitted to the law of Christ. Paul indicated that he himself was.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Galatians 6:2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

After spelling out his commandments (as recorded in Matthew 5,6, and 7) Jesus finished his discourse with the following words:

Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” Matthew 7:24-27 ESV)

(Underlining mine)

[Origen]

“The majority of dispensationalists are known as Acts 2 dispensationalists. They believe the present church began on the day of Pentecost in Acts
chapter 2 and practice water baptism. The majority also believe the New Testament epistles of Hebrews through Revelation were written directly to the present church. Likewise, most dispensationalists also believe the doctrine contained in the Four Gospels also pertains to the present church.”

“However, there are two minority camps within dispensationalism branded by their opponents as hyper-dispensationalists and ultra-dispensationalists. One camp, known as the Mid-Acts view, believes the church began with the Apostle Paul (in either Acts chapter 9 or others in chapter 13 and there are a very few variations) and do not practice water baptism as it is seen as only for Israel. The second camp believes that the church began with the Apostle Paul after Acts 28:28 with Paul’s announcement “Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it” and see both water baptism and the Lord’s Supper as only for Israel. [4] The Acts 28 camp sees Paul’s ministry from the middle of Acts to the end of the book as part of Israel’s administration of the Abrahamic Covenant and not part of the present dispensation, and consequently Paul’s epistles written prior to the so-called Prison Epistles are then not directly for the church today either.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensat … t_theology

[LLC]

We are obligated to obey all that Jesus taught, for this is the Word that was established by God at the foundation of the world and written in our hearts and minds that men should walk in. Jesus did away with the things that were NOT from God but were “tares that had grown up among the wheat.” Some of what was in the Levitical Law was of pagan origin such as the sacrificing of animals, ritual cleansing, ceremonial practices, etc. As Galatians 4:21-31 says, this covenant came from Mount Sinai of Arabia(Hagar), a foreign location, rather than Mount Horeb, the mountain of God. For Abraham had two sons and the “seed” became mixed.

[maintenanceman]

We are obligated to obey all that Jesus taught, for this is the Word that was established by God at the foundation of the world and written in our hearts and minds that men should walk in. Jesus did away with the things that were NOT from God but were “tares that had grown up among the wheat.” Some of what was in the Levitical Law was of pagan origin such as the sacrificing of animals, ritual cleansing, ceremonial practices, etc. As Galatians 4:21-31 says, this covenant came from Mount Sinai of Arabia(Hagar), a foreign location, rather than Mount Horeb, the mountain of God. For Abraham had two sons and the “seed” became mixed.

I would say that the Idea that we are a new creation, would figure into the equation. The laws of God *that are supposed to be obeyed *are few and actually nothing, in context with what is needed in our relationship with God. Christ fulfilled all that was necessary, and we can be assured that our standing with the creator God is perfect.

See acts acts 13:16-41 (look at it!)

2Co 5:17 Anyone who is joined to Christ is a new being; the old is gone, the new has come.
2Co 5:18 All this is done by God, who through Christ changed us from enemies into his friends and gave us the task of making others his friends also.
2Co 5:19 Our message is that God was making [size=150]all human beings his friends through Christ[/size]. God did not keep an account of their sins, and he has given us the message which tells how he makes them his friends.

[Paidion]

Hi MM, you quoted:

2Co 5:19 Our message is that God was making all human beings his friends through Christ. God did not keep an account of their sins, and he has given us the message which tells how he makes them his friends.

Where did you get this “translation” or paraphrase? The word “friends” does not occur in the Greek. The ESV is a good translation:

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:17-19)

The passage first speaks of those who are in Christ. To be in Christ, we must become reconciled to Him. That requires a change of mind and heart, and a willingness to change our behaviour. It is then that we are reconciled to Christ and are a new creation. And we have the divine commission to bring the message of reconciliation to the world, so that others can become overcomers and be Christ-like also.

[maintenanceman]

Hi MM, you quoted:

2Co 5:19 Our message is that God was making all human beings his friends through Christ. God did not keep an account of their sins, and he has given us the message which tells how he makes them his friends.

Where did you get this “translation” or paraphrase? The word “friends” does not occur in the Greek. The ESV is a good translation:

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:17-19)

The passage first speaks of those who are in Christ. To be in Christ, we must become reconciled to Him. That requires a change of mind and heart, and a willingness to change our behaviour. It is then that we are reconciled to Christ and are a new creation. And we have the divine commission to bring the message of reconciliation to the world, so that others can become overcomers and be Christ-like also.

Hmm… As far as reconciliation, I can quote many a proof text but the bottom line is that you believe that we need to do something to receive Christ’s gift, and I say Christ’s gift is a free gift to Israel and thus humanity. Thus when we realize it we become believers.

I think we are discussing this in another thread.

[LLC]

MM, If one is going about stealing, lying, cheating, committing adultery etc.etc. then he is not friends with God. So I would say that we need to be obeying these Laws.

[maintenanceman]

MM, If one is going about stealing, lying, cheating, committing adultery etc.etc. then he is not friends with God. So I would say that we need to be obeying these Laws.

Ahh that is the rub. In my opinion, the separation between God and man *because of sin *has been permanently reconciled through Christ. In other words, God does not hold sin against us. This is important for it Makes Christ’s sacrifice eternally effective. Not conditional as to whether we accept it or not.

If you lie, cheat, steal, have adulterous affairs etc, you are correct, you are not being a friend to God.

I need to follow the laws of my country in order to not get thrown in jail or fined. Thus following those laws keeps my relationship intact.

If I lie cheat steal etc, my relationship with my neighbor will at some point be strained or severed, and that is always tragic.

But the good news is God took it upon himself to make his relationship to man complete, even when we don’t reciprocate.

Once again, just my .02 worth

[steve7150]

We are obligated to obey all that Jesus taught,

Yes and his apostles whom he sent and there are over 150 laws/principals in the NT.

[Hermano]

…Are Christians or Gentiles obligated to follow Jesus’ words here:

17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill [plēroō] them.…(Matthew 5)

Jesus indeed fulfilled the Law FOR US:
plēroō: *“after, be complete, end, expire, fill up” (Strong’s), “so that nothing shall be wanting” *(Thayer’s).

During His earthly ministry Jesus functioned under the Old Covenant of the Law. He did not break the Law, He fulfilled the Law. The New Covenant was initiated by the death of Jesus on the Cross. Therefore, our way of relating to God changed after the Cross and the initiation of the New Covenant. So, the believer on this side of the Cross is totally forgiven (past, present, and future) at the time of salvation.

Satanically inspired dogma—the legalistic embellishments and threats added to God’s communications by Moses—were nailed to the cross by God:

Col 2:14 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances [DOGMA] that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

DOGMA: *"…2. The rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment." *(Thayer’s)

God is a unipolar Daddy of LOVE. Like many still today, Moses did not understand that, and so he sometimes conflated God with Satan in his understanding.

Only the “royal law” applies nowadays: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Js. 2:8. And that single law can only be genuinely followed by those who have Jesus in their hearts.

[steve7150]

Or was the law given to Israel, not the Gentile nations? And Jesus only speaking to those of Israel:

The law given to Israel was the Mosaic Law and that was what Jesus fulfilled. But Jesus and his apostles also gave over 150 laws/principals/guidelines that covered most aspects of the Christian life that “Love your neighbor” didn’t specifically address like guidance on divorce or marrying unbelievers or giving to charity etc etc.

[Paidion]

Hmm… As far as reconciliation, I can quote many a proof text but the bottom line is that you believe that we need to do something to receive Christ’s gift, and I say Christ’s gift is a free gift to Israel and thus humanity.

NO! I do not believe that we need to do something to receive Christ’s gift!

However, I do not believe that Christ’s gift is what you seem to think it to be. It is not a means of satisfying God so that our evil deeds (whether in the past or continuing in the present) will receive no consequences.

Christ’s gift to us is DELIVERANCE from the evil in our characters. If we refuse to be delivered, we are thereby not receiving Christ’s gift. God will never stop working on us until we become righteous.

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6 ESV)

[steve7150]

However, I do not believe that Christ’s gift is what you seem to think it to be. It is not a means of satisfying God so that our evil deeds (whether in the past or continuing in the present) will receive no consequences.

Christ’s gift to us is DELIVERANCE from the evil in our characters. If we refuse to be delivered, we are thereby not receiving Christ’s gift. God will never stop working on us until we become righteous.

These are not mutually exclusive, they are not either this or that!

[Paidion]

I think they ARE mutually exclusive, since God doesn’t obtain SATISFACTION for ANY wrongdoing in the sense that Christ was our substitute and “paid the penalty” for sin. For God does not require anyone to pay a penalty for sin. Only man demands a penalty to be paid for wrongdoing. God is interested only in seeing the wrongdoer become righteous through His enabling grace (made available through Christ’s sacrifice. As my signature statement affirms:

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

God will obtain SATISFACTION only when He sees a sinner repent and become righteous with the help of His enabling grace.

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)

[maintenanceman]

paidion said:

Christ’s gift to us is DELIVERANCE from the evil in our characters. If we refuse to be delivered, we are thereby not receiving Christ’s gift. God will never stop working on us until we become righteous.

Your contention is that until we accept the deliverance, deliverance is not possible?

[maintenanceman]

Jason, how is it that in the thread [size=150]‘what laws are Christians obligated to obey’ [/size]That a Paidion response has the heading[size=150] ‘How can God be satisfied’ ?[/size] just asking…

[davo]

Chad, you simply change the heading in the Subject: box just above the posting box, to whatever you want it to be.