why wouldn’t the rich man ask lazarus to dump a bucket of water on him, instead of just dip his finger to cool his tongue?
How big is Abrahams bosom?
Did Abraham go to his own bosom?
Where did saints go before Abraham died and gave his bosom as the place of heaven?
Revival you have yet to answer these serious questions. If you think the parable is “literal” because the name lazarus is used then these things must also be “literal”.
the parable is an analogy of spiritual truth about the afterlife. Abraham’s name was used as well.
Do your own research, corps. Abraham was a real person, no? Whether you believe Lazarus to be a real person or not does not take away the imagery of the spiritual truth Jesus was teaching about the afterlife.
obviously Abraham existed, but you’re saying this is a true story. Abraham’s inclusion alone is not good enough to establish this.
so what proof have you that the rich man and Lazarus were real people?
So I presume the rich man is not representative of Judah who had 5 brothers (full brothers by his mother Leah)? And Lazarus doesn’t represent Gentiles who had to make do with the spiritual crumbs from the table of the Jews then?
Corpselight
Every parable Jesus ever taught had spiritual truth behind it. It doesn’t really matter if you believe Lazarus existed or not. It doesn’t take away the imagery of spiritual truth about the afterlife.
you specifically said this was a true story…are you changing your position?
if not, you still have to establish how you know that all the characters in this moral lesson to the Pharisees truly existed?
this shouldn’t be too hard for you
this story doesn’t teach literal truth about the afterlife…it is a parody that lampoons the attitudes of the Pharisees who believed that they, the Rich Man (as Jeff A kindly pointed out), would be in Abraham’s bosom and the Gentiles (or poor man) would be in hell.
Jesus is being very sarcastic in this as at the end He shows by stating that the Pharisees would know what He was talking about if they studied Moses and the Prophets. and what do we learn from studying Moses and the Prophets? that God is angry for a moment, but His favour is for life. that God restores the wicked to righteousness and life. and specifically relevant to this parable, it shows that the Gentiles will have a place in “Abraham’s bosom” and that the Jews should not take that for granted.
if this is the case, and it blatantly is, than what about Paul saying that ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED?
that means the Rich Man will not be locked up forever, but merely for an age, as the Bible says.
this should be pretty easy to refute if i’m wrong, perhaps you can do some research of your own for a change?
This post is not about proving if Lazarus was real or not but the spiritual truth behind when people who experience hell or hell like experiences on earth if they repented or not. Again, every parable and I mean every parable Jesus taught had spiritual truth behind it. If you don’t believe that Jesus taught spiritual truth about the afterlife in Luke 16:19-31, no problem… I gave you my reasons why I believe that it is. If you don’t accept that, no biggie. More EU’s believe in my understanding of this teaching than yours or another view. It is the orthodox view of the church whether you like it or not.
The focus of this post is to try to understand why most UR’s believe everyone will repent while being scorched by fire and heat in hell or the lake of fire and we see the opposite is true in scripture. Lets talk about that.
ok, so you’ve backed down on that. fair enough.
also, the statement that “More UR’s believe in my understanding of this teaching than yours or another view” is …debatable. i seriously doubt that is true, as testified by all the replies to you on this thread.
it’s worth addressing, as you charge the rich man with continued arrogance, which i don’t see. he is pretty upset about his circumstances, and asks that his brothers might be spared it. that sounds pretty nice!
also, what did he do that was wicked in the first place? accumulate wealth? it doesn’t say. it also doesn’t say what Lazarus did that was particularly righteous. it just says that they both received the opposite after death to what they had in life.
so does this mean that we should be poor and miserable so we can escape hell?
you brought this up as a defense of your view, and i see no support for it. at no point is the rich man definitely guilty of anything overt, and is no more guilty of arrogance than anyone else would be who has asked for help.
so i feel this parable does not support your view that people would intentionally want to stay in hell.
I kinda sorta do agree with “revival” on this one. 
It is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance, not the wrath of God, which only produces more sin (see romans 1) So as long as Gods wrath is manifest, people will rebel. and the cycle of sin and death will continue. But, and its a huge but 
We thankfully have the promise that Gods anger will be for a little while, while his love endures forever! 
So when ever his anger fulfills what ever purpose he has for it,(it must be a good purpose, since God is completely good) Then the cycle of rebellion, sin, and death will stop also. Then God will be revealed in only his love, and that is what will lead to real repentance! Amen? 
that’s a good point, actually.
yep, i have to say thinking about it from that angle, i can’t argue with that…cycles of abuse just cause bitterness, not reconciliation. so if people were stuck in hell, one could feel they were justified in their rebellion!
sorry Revival, i hadn’t considered it from this angle 
especially since the rich man isn’t specifically stated to be a wicked person…it stands to reason that in the absence of any mercy whatsoever that he’d get pretty justifiably upset and rebel still further.
But…
When God’s judgements are in the earth its inhabitants learn righteousness.
definitely.
i think that’s a bit different from the cycle of abuse that ECT appears to be though
Absolute tosh! There were only two people he saw and could have asked:
You now claim to know what he was thinking? And YOU talk about arrogance!
Yes! That’s called ‘compassion’ you know. An entirely selfless quality and a virtue. But apparently you know what was in his heart - this makes you the judge of another’s heart! Not for the first time since you re-appeared at this forum.
The parable is clearly a dig at Jesus’ audience - the ‘Jews’ They are the blessed/favoured ones and Lazarus (which is the Aramaic equivalent of the name ‘Eleazar’-the gentile in the OT Abraham account) represents the gentiles. It has already been pointed out that the 5 brothers point to Judah.
This would have hit the pharisees for 6! In the next life gentiles would receive more favour than them.
There is no indication of permanence about this state in Hades. Hades is not anyone’s eternal dwelling place.
What intrigues me, is why you don’t know all this when you intimate that your interpretation of scripture is more sound than anyone here because you spend more hours per day practicing glossolalia.
Pilgrim
The Richman is in hell for a reason and his heart is in the same condition as it was on the earth towards Lazarus and God which is my point.
He chose to recognize Abraham and Lazarus…they were not the only OT righteous in paradise. 
Hey now…lets leave our butts out of this… 
Corp, no problem, but I believe you are missing my point. Hell fire or hell on earth experienced in Revelation does not cause everyone to want to repent and call on the name of the Lord. It does not change who they are at the core…spiritually dead people. The scriptures speak for themselves. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God not by hell fire or lake of fire experiences. Rom 10:17.
Corp, the Richman was and still is in hell for a reason…(because he is spiritually dead and unrighteous). That doesn’t change by fire and heat.
God’s wrath in Revelation is not for sin to increase but a judgement upon sin and a last altar call for anyone who wants to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.
-stating an irrelevant obvious.
and now we have the all too common completely unsubstantiated extra biblical assumption
Precisely. It seems that whenever you get to your point, you simply make an unjustified and unbiblical claim. Stating it doesn’t make it so (unless you are God).
Bizarre.
The truth of universal reconciliation is not for everyone, plain and simple. Not in this life, at any rate. We will argue back and forth, but it will not make a difference until God’s spirit removes the blinders and reveals the magnificence and efficacy of His love.The more I think about it, the more I realize that one has to come to a place where one aligns oneself with the kind of love that truly desires that all be saved, in order to comprehend this mystery. Until one is willing to recognize that God really does love each and every one of His creatures, and until one’s heart breaks and begins to yearn for that love to permeate all creation, one will remain in the dark, unable to see, comprehend or even yearn for an all-encompassing love that is capable of reaching all heights and dephts.
We can sing that “the blood will never lose its power” and that “it reaches to highest mountain and it flows to the lowest valley,” but it will be nothing more than a series of meaningless words; that is, until we come face to face with the kind of love that is fully determined to do just that, after which we can not help but desire that which God desires. And then we embrace the reality that what God desires, He is capable and determined to fulfill. That is the mystery of the shepherd who leaves the ninety nine and goes out in search of the one lamb that wandered off and brings her back to the fold. The lost lamb did not choose to return; it was the shepherd who sought her and brought her home because He loved her.
The Good News of the Gospel is not that we are able to choose Christ, but that Christ chooses us; it is the story of a love that will go to any length to redeem, restore and revive.
David