Todd.
you said : 1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
Aaron37, the context here is all who die in Adam; that includes everyone, both believers and unbelievers.
Aaron37: The two “alls” are alike only in the sense that they both apply to descendants. We are all born unbelievers and descendants in Adam. We are born again by faith and made believers in Christ. Only believers are in Christ and are his descendants.
Aug.
Would you renounce your belief in UR if I were able to prove your interpretation error of Ezek 16… Probably not, so why should I try? Would it really change anything, Auggy?
Aaron37,
That’s a big stretch to say that within the same verse the word “all” refers to two different sets of people. I prefer the plain reading of the verse.
Todd
Todd.
It’s a bigger stretch to refer the ‘all’ in Christ meaning every person…when Paul teaches throughout the NT this comes by believing. The all in Christ are all believers.
Aaron37,
The verse doesn’t say “all in Christ”; it says, “in Christ all…”.
Todd
Todd.
To be in Christ one must believe. So, the all who are made alive are made alive by their faith in Christ…its not a birth right…unlike being in Adam is a birth right.
So then your view is that only believers will be resurrected?..this is the logic of your claim. If you say that “in Christ all will be made alive” means that only those who are in Christ will be made alive, then those who are not in Christ will not be made alive (or resurrected). This cannot be the meaning of this verse because we know that both the just and unjust will be resurrected (Acts 24:15).
Todd
Todd.
No, unbelievers will be resurrected, but not to life, but to condemnation. There are two different resurrections, one for the righteous, one for the unrighteous.
Aaron37,
Of course not, and you even thinking that I should shows how shallow you think of anothers faith. There are far more scriptures that pronounce UR than EZ. 16. I would not expect you to abandon ECT for EZ 16 even if you thought we were right about God restoring Sodom. I said what it should do is cause you to at least admit, that ECT has problems with scriptures and philisophical ideas. I did not say you should abandon ECT; I would agree with Gregory Macdonald that you should not. Especially over one verse. The bible is VAST and so you should understand we do not just take romans 5 and Ez 16 and say “there it is baby, UR!”
Even I will openely say EZ 16 is a difficult passage to totally make sense of. Not because of UR but because of the language it uses. But certainly I would say you have much to prove to remove any of us from what we believe (and that’s the way it should be as bereans). We have to test everything you say, not just accept it; and you likewise.
Everyone always believes they’re right in their views. But MOST people are unwilling to say they have difficulties because once they say that they feel they’re proned to being wrong. I see this in you. You’ve even gone as far as saying salvation is not an offer. Well then it’s not a choice to be saved then is it? You openly denied that God did not reconcile the sinner unto himself and countered with God reconciled himself to the sinner (but 4-5 scriptures were tossed directly at you to which you did not provide one that clearly defines your view).
We’re ok with you believing in ECT, we used to as well. You always say you used to be a calvinist…well we used to be ECT. So that proves we’re right. If you can see that we prove NOTHING by saying we used to be ECT then you should know YOU PROVE NOTHING when you say you used to be a calvinist.
Sorry Aaron37, you like so many Christians think they’ve got it all figured out but when God’s love comes to the table I remain unimpressed by their lack of philosophical beliefs which I believe causes them to re-intrpret scripture. We all do it, we all commit the fallacies but God granted us mercy to humble ourselves that we did not have it all figured out as we had thought. He removed the scales from our eyes to realize the phariseeical filters which we saw the world was the one which caused us to belileve God in the end does not seek his sheep, nor does he grab the sheep, nor does he have mercy on them to bring them rational thinking (you yourself stated, Lydias worshipping God was not an act of his having mercy on her).
Auggy
Aug.
Salvation is a choice just like me responding to this post is a choice. Your stuck in monergism( as I was) until I humble myself to be taught by the Holy Spirit and not the traditions of man.
So how is it that God does not offer salvation and yet salvation is a choice? Ahhhh never mind, I know you’ll give some crummy answer explaining why you can say one thing and then contradict it later. I to grow tired and frustrated as everyone esle does. At least we agree on that.
Aug.
Why are you so hung up on God offering salvation?
In the Bible, confess often connotes much more than “acknowledge,” as can be seen in verses from both the Old and New Testaments.
Isaiah 26:13: O LORD our God, other masters besides You have ruled us; {But} through You alone we confess Your name.
Luke 12:8: "And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God.”
But even an honest acknowledgement or statement that Jesus is Lord would seem to be sufficient to make the point that confessing indicates belief, as shown by 1 Corinthians 12:3: Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
lancia.
There is more to saying “Jesus is Lord” than just the repeating of these words. In Mark 1:24, there is an instance where demons cried out that Jesus was the Holy one of God and yet we know that demons aren’t inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Paul is saying that any utterance that glorifies Jesus as Lord is directed by the Holy Spirit. It is only through the Holy Spirit that anyone can recognize and glorify Jesus as Lord.
Which is why you are always in error in your judgment and rebukes.
Craig.
How did Jesus’ body turn to dust without it decaying, eh?
What may be true for evil spirits is not necessarily true for man. It is my impression that 1 Corinthians 12:3 [Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.] is speaking about man.
You said, “demons aren’t inspired by the Holy Spirit.” If that is the case, 1 Corinthians 12:3, even using your own words, could not possibly be speaking about evil spirits.
lancia.
The point being that it is possible to say Jesus is Lord that is not inspired by the Holy Spirit.
I disagree. The point of 1 Corinthians 12:3 is that it is not possible for us * to say that Jesus is Lord without being inspired by the Holy Spirit.*
What was holding his dust body together was no more. You don’t know that Jesus was God, do you? You don’t realize that at the moment someone dies, that death is decay; therefore, what you think it meant that His Chosen One would not see decay, meant something completely different and was not talking about physical corruption.
But it looks like you up to your old tricks.