The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Why is power given importance in scripture and theology

Theology Biblical Theology
#1

In the bible, power is acknowledged as an attribute of God. Plus, power is described as a gift in parts of the new testament. Yet on the other hand, power is treated as dangerous and often sees the powerful as prone to evil, and weakness as being strength.

I know that in our egoic, carnal or earthly logic, power is the ultimate reality, like in Harry Potter, Voldemort says “There is no good and evil, only power and those too weak to pursue it”. Yet, it is hard to imagine that anything is useful unless it has power. And I have seen it is treated often times as an idol. Like people who only worship God only due to power. Or even placing power as the sum bonum, such as seeking after knowledge, wealth, influence, brute strength, or get into sorcery or the occult.

Now what I question about power is why is it so important? First off, power is not really good, nor is it bad. Its just basically having abilities. Like the ability to use ones wealth to help those in need or to buy laws to help your interests. Now if God is the whole and source of all being, then I cannot help but question why power would be a necessary attribute of God. It seems neither a moral benefit to us, or theologically necessary if God needs nothing.

Is this like a Cataphaphic matter? To say something along the lines of what God is like, or a kind of way of earthly analogy? I remember in the writings of C.S. Lewis, earthly things are described as shadows of Heaven.

#2

The first thing I discovered in searching for the Greek word usually translated as “power” is that that word is also frequently translated as “miracles.”
That word is δυναμις (“dynamis”, the source of the English word “dynamite.”) It is also the case that some translations render the word “εξουσια” (exousia) as “power.” But that is a mistake. The latter word should be translated as “authority.”

Joe could you quote the passages that decribe “power” as a gift?

#3

Hi Paidon, I’m not Joe but I read this thread earlier and as I was reading Matthew today I remembered your question that I quoted above.
at least one passage would be Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

#4

You shall receive power(dunamis) after the Holy Spirit comes upon you and you shall be witness unto me…

“Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Hebrews 2:4 God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.

Heb 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

1 Cor 2:4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

2 Cor 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

#5

It always intrigues me about John 4:48. If the folks back then needed signs and wonders, in order to believe - what about us today?

#6

I think people still need signs and wonders sometimes. They still occur. But Jesus also warned against becoming focused on signs and wonders. I think there have to be some unique conditions in effect for a godly miracle to take place, and the scriptures say Jesus was not able to do many mighty works in Capernaum because of their unbelief- which I think was probably not nearly as strong as our unbelief today, when even most Christians do not believe God still works supernaturally.

#7

Without power you can’t have life.

Power is energy and life force.

Jesus Christ demonstrated power over life and death so recognize his divine attributes.

Compare him with Buddha…Buddha has no power. Buddha can not heal you or cast out a demon because he is powerless.

Today, however, there are still faith healers and people casting out demons in Jesus name. Praise Jesus.

You find a lot of these people in the missionary field or frontline ministries.

#8

There are two words describing God’s power.

Exousia and dunamis.

A good article explaining it here.

God’s Power in You, Pursuing Truth Ministries.net by William R. Cunningham

pursuingthetruth.org/sermons … dinyou.htm

#9

As a Christian, I do believe in the power of the holy spirit and healing. And there are Christian saints in the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic worlds, who had the gift of healing. And this also applies to non-Christian traditions, such as Native American, Sufi, Yoga, Buddhist, etc.

Speaking of Buddhism. I believe one of his direct disciples was named Ananda and had the gift of healing. In the Tibetan tradition, we need to just look at the lives of Buddhist saints like Milarepa. In an article entitled Healing: a Tibetan Buddhist perspective, I find this statement:

What can we learn here? Before making blanket statements, either conduct the academic research or consult the appropriate subject matter experts. Due diligence is needed at all times.

#10

Since God is the Ultimate Creator, He is the only one who has the knowledge and the answers to everything.

John 5:20 For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all things that He Himself does, and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.

Matthew 21:21 Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, “Be removed and be cast into the sea”, it will be done.

From these two verses, I think what God revealed to His disciples are the powers that lie hidden within the earth just waiting for us to discover and put to good use. I see miracles all around me in today’s world. People just don’t recognize them for what they are. How does music play through a radio? How does an airplane that weighs thousands of pounds stay in the sky? We use the laser light to correct vision problems and for other medical procedures. These things are amazing to me. I don’t understand how it works, but others have figured it out. I believe there is much more out there. We just need to have God’s Holy Spirit guide us in finding the answers. Seek and ye shall find.

#11

I am sorry to be contentious but Christians don’t need to be studying Buddhism for anything other than to prove it is a false.

Jesus Christ is not a religion. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Our image is from God and we are in the act of cooperating with God in restoring Christ’s image in us.

Not anyone else.

The New Testament says to fix your eyes on Jesus. That is what Paul did. Paul said his life was a pattern and his pattern was based on Jesus’s pattern.

Not on weak worldly substitutes.

We should be converting the Buddhists not accommodating them in their detachment from the source of true life, love and power.

Satan has sown a lot of false counterfeits in this world.

Buddha would probably have followed Christ if He hadn’t been born about 500 years ago before Christ.

follow God’s directions and don’t let counterfeits or idols prevent you from mentally focusing the spiritual eyes of your heart on Jesus. We want to be receiving the reality not the fakes while we are in,this life.

The world is full of frauds and only studying the bible to a high degree of intensity will allow you to learn to spot the counterfeits.

#12

It really depends on your perspective. I am a Christian inclusivist. Many here are Christian universalists. Some Christians in the Roman Catholic and Protestant worlds derive great benefit from things like Zen and Buddhist Insight Meditation. You are probably a Christian exclusivist. As Jerry Sienfelt once said on his show:

See terms 1 and terms 2

Please note: It’s not my wish nor intention to participate in any debate between exclusivism, pluralism, inclusivism and exclusivism. This has been well exhausted on this forum - I’m sure - and elsewhere on the web.

#13

You can know Christ saved the world but you still have a spiritual birth to protect in yourself and others who are in the process of spiritual birth and growth.

How are you protecting anyone’s spiritual birth by letting them learn unscriptural ideas? Jesus Christ is the Word and the giver of spiritual birth through His blood.

Blood contains DNA. There is a specific code and pattern to it.

Our God is a holy God and holy means set apart. We are suppose to be Chritlike not like the world.

Psalm 23…He restores my soul…

I don’t want to interrupt his restoration process. We abide in Him. He is the vine and we are the branches cf. John 15

If you look at the physical DNA of people there are coding errors that cause diseases and physical ailments.

I don’t intend to let the world disrupt my spiritual birth…it is far to valuable to me and it is compared to a seed and a seed takes time to root and to break forth and grow before it transforms.

My sheep hear my voice. God is a jealous God and that is a protective jealousy aimed at keeping me free of worldly influences.

Shouldn’t his family bear a resemblance to Him and heed Him?

#14

This brings up an interesting question. Whose interpretation of scripture do we side with? One of the major Protestant denominational versions? What some local community or bible Church teaches? What some TV evangelist is saying? Or do we add holy tradition to the mix, like the Eastern Orthodox teach? Or do we take the position of the Roman Catholic church, as being the interpreters of scripture? Or do we add spiritual experience to the mix, like the Quakers do? There are many options to choose here! For the record, the Roman Catholic church does teach a form of inclusivism. And many in Eastern Orthodoxy side with universalism. Let me end by asking a blunt question - which form or tradition of scriptural interpretation do you recommend and endorse?

#15

Some perspective on power…

There are many powers. But there is a power that is strictly available through Jesus Christ.

“It is by the name of Jesus Christ and by faith in that name, that this man stands before you made whole.”

Whatever powers there are otherwise, some of which may be inherent to man and earth, as well as some that are from supernatural sources that are adversaries of Christ…

“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,”(2Thess 2)…

The name of Jesus Christ is the name into which, because of the person of the name, and His deeds, the Holy Spirit manifests the power of God…

Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.(Phil 2)

As Jesus said, “All power on heaven and earth is given to me my my Father” and…

“You shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses unto me, from Jerusalem and all Judea and Samaria, even unto the uttermost parts of the earth”(Acts 1).

The Holy Spirit bears witness to the supremacy of the Lord Jesus Christ…

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father–the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father–he will testify about me.”(Jn 15)

We are witnesses to the fact that “God has made both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you have crucified”(Acts 2).

IMO, it is not until a person realizes that Jesus has been crucified for them, that they come under the power of that name above every name. All the rest have one who will judge them in the light of the day (The bright-shininb of His presence, the removal of the veil that blinds men to the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ), and their conscience will bear witness for them or against them according to their deeds on the Day when God judges the secrets of men’s hearts through Jesus Christ(Rom 2).

But in this day, there is one name given among men under heaven wheredy men may be saved(restored, made whole), the name of Jesus.(Acts 4)

The power available through His name is given as authority and dunamis, unto the glory of God the Father.

“And the Lord worked with them, confirming the word with signs and wonders.”

“…how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.”(Heb 2)

The greatest power is the restoration of the soul through resurrection out of Adam into Christ by the word implanted, the incorruptible seed, Christ in you the hope of glory.

#16

I endorse discipleship. The high calling of God…so I have to read it a lot and chew the cud which means assimilate the word through biblical meditation and hide it in my heart until it is a part of myself and I am able to act from a higher and purer motive than most people ever conceive of because this motive comes from the mind of Christ not men.

The drives and motives of God are holy and different from the world. The world can block your heart with idols and your mind with fears and temptation until it compromises your will.

But when you are surrendered and set apart to God then you can take your will back from the world and abide in God’s will for your life with a lot more peace and assurance. The world likes to rob us of our contentment.

The Buddhists way is to detach.

The Christian way is to attach to God through Christ.

Why do you always see Christians with their arms up? Are they vessels waiting to be filled or little children waiting to be lifted up?

Either way they are attached to something and demonstrating it with outstretched arms.

#17

The theological views I do believe are the best interpretation of the bible are the ones given by Dr. Stephen E. Jones on his site God’s Kingdom Ministries.net.

#18

Okay, here goes on my questioning about power. At the heart of the matter is that power is just the ability to do something. Yet, we have the whole ethical problem of power, and how it can become an idol. The whole ethical or moral matter of power is A) Just because you can do something, does it make it okay?(Ex. Does freedom of speech make disrespectful speech justified?). B) Just because you dont have the ability to do something, does it make it foolish to try to do so?(Like is it okay attempt to outrun a rabbit?), C) Are powerful forces entitled to exercise their power over those with less power than them(Like is bullying okay?), or D) Does having less power mean you are obligated to surrender to those with more power?(Is it wrong to defy a tyrant?).

Now the metaphysical question. What tangible cause is there if power is not the source of reality? According to our carnal, earthly or egoic knowledge, power is the ultimate reality. There would basically be four ways, A) My ideal, B) Your ideal, C) How things are as we observe them, and D) The ability to have one of them. And thats how we naturally experience reality. In our natural experience, it seems like power is greater than justice. Like in nature, a volcano erupts, and its not going to stop, just because there are organisms living by, and the right of a human settlement is not going to restrain the volcano from erupting there. Or even in human society, Government, Big Business, and such are sustained on power, hence their tendency towards injustice. Even so, we naturally pursue power, such as knowledge(To understand problems and find a solution), physical strength(For self defense, bullying or labor), Money(To be able to do things you want, or buy influence), Military might(To defend or conquer). Plus, I find the attachment to anger is out of a desire for power to destroy what you dislike, as both anxiety and depression are inherently weak, with fear running solely on surrender to powers, and depression is indifferent defeatism.

Aside theologically, I am sure we understand that we cannot restrain God to a human finite understanding of reality. Hence the use of apophatic and cataphaphic theology. Like light, love, joy, peace, goodness, beauty, and truth. Or other analogies of a warrior, father, husband, Son, Spirit, Mother, creator, author, or in negative terms, infinite, eternal(Not bound to time), omnipresent(not bound to space), changeless, ect.

Even so, many of these terms are apprehendable, like we can understand them, but cannot really explain. Or at least in the sense of understanding them theologically. As we dont really need to think of light in relation to God in terms of physics. Yet we know that it is something and secure, as compared to darkness. Even though physically darkness and light are neither evil or good, they just are.

So with power, I cannot help but see power in an earthly way of just brute ability. Since if God is above and transcends anything we can imagine, it seems senseless to think that God needs power. If he is the creator of power. Yet analogically, its hard to understand the use of power. Like using earthly logic, it would seem that Power is what gives God legitimacy. In the form of might makes right. Which to many people, is the whole basis of worship, out of fear of offending a high and unrivaled power.

#19

The power of God is a manifestation of His character. he moves by the Spirit. His Spirit is I AM. A good verse for the relationship between His power and His character is in Romans 1

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made.

Another is the temptation of Christ at the end of His fast.

If you are the son of God turn these stones into bread

“IT IS WRITTEN” Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God

Here we see a lesson on the godly use of power- it is always subject to the word of God, the sword of the spirit, living and active, dividing asunder soul and spirit “making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart”.(Heb 4)

If you are the son of God cast yourself down from this pinnacle for “it is written” He will give His angels charge over you lest you dash your foot on a stone"

Jesus returns to character, divine nature, “IT IS WRITTEN, You shall not tempth the Lord thy God with a foolish test”

Power can be used well or not, for good or not, for self or for the will of God- which is always to reveal the divine nature.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set free those who are oppressed,
To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”

“For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.” But not brute strength. “Not by might nor by power but by my Spirit”.

2 Cor 3;15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

The power of God is His love activated to unveil, reveal and transform into the image of Christ- to become partakers of the divine nature(2 Peter 1:4)

Eph 1:15 For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe.

Eph 3:14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

Power to be rooted and grounded in love and filled with God, the I AM, partakers of the divine nature, in order to reveal Him to the world.

2 Cor 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

#20

Now it’s time for a question. Let’s look at Luke 11:18. Here we have Christ’s response about healing, by the power of the devil. In light of this, suppose we witnessed a miraculous healing, where the medical authorities have said the condition is terminal. Perhaps it was via the prayers of a Christian Scientist, someone considered a saint in the Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic tradition, or even someone from one of those “heathen” traditions. How would we respond to what we witnessed, in light of Christ’s scriptural response?