The Evangelical Universalist Forum

70 AD- calling you Davo


Correct Steve… the intended end was always maturity

Perfection = Maturity <ἄνδρα τέλειον> andra = ‘a person of full age and stature’ teleion = ‘fully realised’.



Paidion, Deut. 10:17-19 “The Lord your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. He executes justice for the orphan and the widow and shows His loving kindness for the stranger by giving him food and clothing.”
1Chron.16:34 Give thanks to the Lord for He is good; His love endures forever."
Psalm 103:2-5 “Bless the Lord, O my soul and forget none of His benefits. He pardons all your sins. He heals all your diseases. He redeems your life from the pit. He crowns you with loving kindness, He satisfies your years with good things.”
Lamentations 3:22-23 “The Lord’s loving kindness certainly never ceases because His compassions never fail. His love, kindness, and compassion are new every morning. Great is your loyal trustworthiness, O Lord.”

There are hundreds of verses in the OT like the above that tell us who God is. Read Psalms, Proverbs, all the Prophets, and they will also tell you who God is because they KNEW Him.

Lev. 19:16 “You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor.”
Lev.19:17-18 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge against the children of your people.”
Psalm 15:3 “He does not slander with his tongue, nor does evil to his neighbor, nor take a reproach against his friend.”
Psalm 37:8-9 “Refrain from anger and turn from wrath. Do not fret, it leads only to evil.”
Proverbs 15:1 “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.”
Proverbs 10:12 “Hatred stirs up conflict, but love covers all wrongs.”

Proverbs 6:25 “Do not lust in your heart after her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes.”

Exodus 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery.”
Malachi 2:16 "For I hate divorce says the lord God of Israel.

Exodus 21:23-26 “But if lasting harm follows then you shall GIVE (not take) life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth…And if a man strikes the eye of his servant or the eye of his maidservant and destroys it, he shall let him go free for the sake of his eye…”
Proverbs 20:22 “Do not say I will repay evil. Wait for the lord and He will save you.”



Perhaps there is a type of perfection - attainable to some. Which you might find, in the stories of saints and holy people. In the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions…or the traditions of other religions.

Now I have seen good times…and I have seen bad times…Perhaps much more bad times.

But I have also:

Hung around with Father A…the Roman Catholic priest, who “allegedly” has the gift of healing and hearing the voice of God. And a strong inner voice, keeps telling me…he will be declared a saint - after his death.
Spent many years, with the medicine men and women…of the Two Feathers Medicine clan. And saw many things, I can’t explain away. (see Family Reunion)
Hung around the Bruno Gröning circle of friends…A German healer who healed crowds of hundreds…And his healings still occur - after his death.
Hung around with an Eastern saint - now deceased. That is written up in the book, This House Is On Fire (available on Amazon).

See,for example (NOT related to Father A) Detroit priest is now one step from sainthood

Now maybe…Just maybe:

I am telling nice stories, for the purposes of entertainment.
I experienced what I saw. But perhaps I suffered from abnormal psychosis. Or I hypothetically - partook too much, of that Native American peyote or ayahuasca. Which I can neither affirm nor deny - mind you.
Or all (or most), of what I experienced was real.

Well, perhaps some have obtained - a type of perfection. Whether they know Christ, in the traditional way - or not. Or maybe they are like the superheros, of the movies Thor: Ragnarok and the Justice League - “myths and legends”. Like presenters at the International, Flat Earth conference - are trying to promote.

You decide :exclamation: :smiley:



Probably not. But in my understanding this is not an example of hyperbole. Paul FELT that he was the chief of sinners because prior to his miraculous conversion, he had been actively putting Christians to death.



Paidion, From what I understand, Jesus did not fulfill the predictions of the Law and the prophets, He followed the same Law of God that Moses and the prophets followed and proclaimed to be the true word of God. They WERE the Christs( the anointed of God) who continued to pass on the wisdom of God as told to them by their ancestors and which they themselves saw the truth thereof. I believe that if the original book of the Law of Moses were to be found, it would say the same things that Jesus said.



I want to share a message - from today - from the Roman Catholic site Contemplation. Whether things were entirely fulfilled in 70 AD - or NOT… Or ALL the “unusual” theologies presented here - are true or NOT…we need to live in the eternal now. Here’s today’s message, from Roman Catholic priest Richard Rohr:

I don’t think that shortly after 70 AD, they could:

Live in the eternal now and
Watch TV evangelist - Joel Osteen - on TV.

Let’s live in the now, with some timely humor from Sunil Bali at



I approve of this message… :laughing:



Does Pantelism view this passage of Scripture as being fulfilled already:

Rom.8:17 Yet if children, enjoyers also of an allotment, enjoyers, indeed, of an allotment from God, yet joint enjoyers of Christ’s allotment, if so be that we are suffering together, that we should be glorified together also." 18 For I am reckoning that the sufferings of the current era do not deserve the glory about to be revealed for us. 19 For the premonition of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God. 20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation" 21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God." 22 For we are aware that the entire creation is groaning and travailing together until now.

Has creation already been “freed from the slavery of corruption”?



Short answer… YES. More detailed answer as follows…

The pantelist understanding of Romans 8 has nothing to do with the physical time-space creation… this passage is all about “the creature” Israel, and her redemption, i.e., covenant renewal aka resurrection…



“Full Preterism is an obvious error”: … -preterism



Come now, Origen. I’m NOT a Preterist (either partial or full). But I have respect, for those on this forum - who hold this view.

I mean. If folks allow me, to promote the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse. Then I can allow them, to hold various preterist positions. Or even MORE outlandish views - like no free will universalism or ultra-universalism. :laughing:

And as a member of the Theosophical Society (mainly for their library resources)…There’s nothing folks say here…that’s more stranger than…the guest lecturers, they sometimes invite… :laughing:

Or you being a fan of Benny Hinn. Who is my book, is in the same category…as Peter Popoff, and his miracle spring water and supernatural money miracles. :laughing:



I mean. If folks allow me, to promote the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse. Then I can allow them, to hold various preterist positions. Or even MORE outlandish views - like no free will universalism or ultra-universalism. :laughing:

A little known theory is that the Zombie Apocalypse took place in Jerusalem in 70AD. Maybe you can become a Zombie Preterist! :astonished:



What does commenting on a viewpoint have to do with “respect” for a person? Is it disrespecting a person to tell them the notion that “the saints will be eternally joyful at the sight of the eternally damned”, or “God is a Teddy Bear” or “heaven will be hell” is an obvious error?

If having your notion of “respect” for all who hold any views whatsoever (whether those of Satanism, cults, doctrines of demons, serial killing & suicide murdering like in 9/11, etc) sums up your entire post in a word, then shouldn’t that include having “respect” for someone quoted - not named Origen - who said “Full Preterism is an obvious error”?

Do you suppose Jesus always showed so-called “respect” (according to your notion & application of it) to the Pharisees, or Paul to the Judaizers?

Is your idea of “respect” being tolerant of all, everything & anything, or being religiously doctrinally politically correct?

Does davo often fail to show your kind of “respect” to those who oppose his Pantelistic notions repeatedly posted all over these forums? :unamused:

Will davo come to the rescue of his Pantelist compadres notions being slaughtered by TomL with the Word of God on the CARM Preterist forum, or finally admit after decades of promoting the doctrine the error of his ways? Time will tell :laughing:



I have seen the debates, on Full Preterism, Ultra Universalism, and No free will universalism - among other things…All here on this forum, mind you. And they just drag on - both pro and con. Folks holding these views here, KNOW what the Orthodox positions are. And what views forum members here - hold. For every PROOF you come up with - no matter how good… Those holding those views will come up with counter views.

So if you wish to continue the debate - be my guest. I’ll just sit on the sidelines and watch. :laughing:

But every now and then…I’ll try to warn them, of the up and coming tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse. :slight_smile:

It all reminds me of a song. :laughing:




Do you have a life outside of soteriology? No offense, but you seem obsessed. The people at CARM probably think universalism is heresy. It’s surprising that you spend time on their forums.



Are Robin Parry, Tom Talbott and Gary Amirault also obsessed with soteriology?

Does the link i posted to CARM have something to do with soteriology?

I, too, once thought universalism was heresy. That didn’t make everything i believed wrong or invalidate my born again experience which occurred in connection with someone who also thought universalism was heresy. If we confine ourselves only to fellowship with & the teachings & ministry of universalists, we are cutting ourselves off from the rest of the body of Christ & what it has to offer, which is much IMO.

No doubt many of your queries on this site would receive amazing answers on CARM.



Guilty as charged!! Although the evidence is strong on this forum that I usually engage on a reasoned level. IF however some nob wants to mix-it I have little qualms using their language in hopes of breaking through their dull-wittedness… but I have to admit, that doesn’t always work. :sunglasses:

Anyway, this particular thread addressed to me by someone else was relative to ‘pantelism’ specific as opposed to prêterism per sé. But that said Origen… your last post after my last response is TYPICAL of your mind-numbing mindset where you ask a question (Rom 8) and get a cogent and detailed response and what is your rejoinder… just more evidence your own lack of positional acumen in that you simplistically ignore what befuddles you and immediately run off at the mouth with the next idiotic claim courtesy of some other website — and typically from you… another cut n’ paste job.



Davey, as you might have easily deduced from my most recent comment in the recent DBH translation thread, & other posts on this topic, my “rejoinder” when you don’t see a response is typically a :unamused: Though that doesn’t explain your lack of a “rejoinder” to posts scattered in threads over these forums. Is that “evidence” of “your own lack of positional acumen”? Also this friendly challenge still waits you:

Will davo come to the rescue of his Pantelist compadres notions being slaughtered by TomL with the Word of God on the CARM Preterist forum, or finally admit after decades of promoting the doctrine the error of his ways? Time will tell :laughing:

Let’s see some evidence of your “positional acumen” matched up head to head, mano a mano, with TomL on the CARM Pretesist forum. I’m giving you a 95-99% chance of joining your campadres in the slaughterhouse. Just be sure to not mention anything universalist related (e.g. Pantelism) since that will get you banned, & be on your best behaviour, as i wouldn’t want to see you disqualified before your Preteristic notions are destroyed :smiley:



Origen, your taunting is very immature. Why don’t you invite this Tom fellow whom you seem to idolize to join this forum?



Indeed qaz… trickle-down taunts are tiresome and I must be getting old as I have less and less time for such facile foolishness. :unamused: