I appreciate all that…Why is this so hard for you to do? This should be easy if UR is true. Show me evidence after the final judgment in Rev 20:11-15 of this mass exodus leaving the lake of fire.
Fire is transformative.
The stuff that goes in is not the same stuff that comes out.
Could it be that the Lake of Fire is a metaphorical for God’s spiritual process for transforming all the garbage into purity?
Death and hell go into the Lake of Fire and are no more - part of the process of making all things new.
Every man’s work will be tried by fire.
Every man’s.
God is a refining fire.
I appreciate all that…Why is this so hard for you to do? This should be easy if UR is true. Show me evidence after the final judgment in Rev 20:11-15 of this mass exodus leaving the lake of fire.
I disagree! 
But I suppose it wouldn’t be for you, since you believe it is a real place, and that you may end up there! 
Again, because you seemed to have missed the crucial point: fire is transformative.
There is no mass exodus.
There is a transformation whereby ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW.
The description of death and hell being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the evidence.
Thanks davidbo.
Now there is an interesting point.
If the LOF was Hell, then we would have Hell being thrown into Hell.
Just another absurdity in the dogma of ECT!!!
The LOF is not hell. Hades is hell. The LOF is much more horrific.
It’s because the goalposts keep getting moved.
Evidence that Universalism is true from the whole of Scripture? Provided in abundance.
Evidence that Hell is redemptive? Provided all over the place.
Evidence that even in THIS passage, there is redemption after the Lake of Fire? Provided without hesitation.
So NOW you want an explicit verse saying that there will be a mass exodus from the Lake of Fire, and that verse has to play by certain rules. For instance, John’s Universalistic vision earlier in the book is apparently insufficient evidence. “The nations”–John’s words for the unredeemed world as a whole, and “the kings of the Earth,” his words for the ungodly rulers of that world as a whole, are clearly redeemed. And that’s been provided, but you claim it’s insufficient.
So your evidence? Your evidence, your Scripture about the mass of men being ultimately saved, is that the nations are redeemed; that is, they are healed by the Tree of Life and walking in the Light of God. If that isn’t “mass” enough, if “every created thing in Heaven and on Earth and under the Earth and in the sea” isn’t “mass” enough, then you’ve made your position unfalsifiable. No Scripture, no matter how explicit, would be sufficient to convince you because the Scriptures that we have that are perfectly explicit are not enough.
If you must insist that terms (such as “the nations”) do not mean in one instance what they mean in every other instance, that John has changed what he means by them without giving us any indication that he’s done so, in order for your doctrine to be true, the more likely explanation is usually that your doctrine is simply mistaken.
I have already addressed the kings of the earth. Do you concede that there is no evidence of anyone exiting the lake of fire after the final judgment in Rev 20:11-15? If not, show me.
We did. That you refuse to see it, well, that’s your prerogative . Your whole “addressing” of that topic consisted of insisting that John means something different by those terms than he means every other time he uses them. And, as I said, when your doctrine requires you to do that, your doctrine is probably wrong. Nobody can force you to see what you don’t want to see.
The problem might not be in it being “hard for us”, but rather it may be in that you are refusing to acknowledge the witness of the full counsel of scripture, rather hypocritically I might add, given this particular quote of yours;
“I live by every word of God, not by the opinions of Allan.”
Apparently you don’t live by every word of God, because from what I observe you are prone to rejecting our Biblical references and verses showing the salvation of All; which by default means the redemption of All from/through the final judgement - the second death, the Lake of Fire. If you’re going to reject the counsel of scripture based on little else but chronological placement in the canon, rather than contextual exegesis and placement within the spiritual themes expressed - then not much can be done to help you, except to wait for your growth.
The evidence is in the verses we’ve already cited time and time again, in the themes we’ve already presented time and time again, and even chronologically it is most likely in one of the letters of Paul where he discusses The End Times.
1 Corinthians 15
21: For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
24: Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25: For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26: The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27: “For God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “All things are put in subjection under him,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. 28: When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.
(Emphasis mine)
Even the death which is connected to the Lake of Fire will be destroyed, or else Death has not been destroyed; and so the prophecy rendered lie. Those within it, when death is ended, must be then immediately in a position of Life and hence thereby have redemption, and have made their immediate exodus out of it - for it has been ended right out of their midst.
…Unless you want to switch your theological insistence to Annihilationism…at which case, you still have to give up your Eternal Damnationalist lenses in favour of a new prescription.
Thanks again, Lefein.
Contend with the post. After that, I will see to receiving thanks.
With (dwindling) respect, it is your problem. “It says “lake of fire”. Therefore it is a lake of fire. It doesn’t say anyone gets out. Therefore no one gets out.” But didn’t John tell us earlier in the book that all created beings would end up praising God?
Seriously, if this represents your clearest thinking, you would be well advised to keep your opinions to yourself lest you bring further dishonour to God.
Intellectual honesty demands consistency of approach. You live by every word of God? It also says one third of the stars (that’s about 100 sextillion) will fall into the sea. (Does this includes black holes and neutron stars?) Since our sun is a million times bigger than the earth, this might present even God with some difficulties.
Hi Lefein
What seems to escape you and other UR’s is that you all can shotgun all the scriptures you want to say they that support UR… I say, Ok, fine, show me evidence of the scripture support that you say will bring the UR to the people who get thrown into the lake of fire at final judgment in Rev 20:11-15. For UR to be true, there must be a mass exodus of all the people who got thrown into the lake of fire after the judgment in Rev 20:11-15. A simple evidence for so much scripture support for UR, right? This should be easy. After all, all the scripture that supports UR should point to this jubilus exit from the lake of fire after Rev 20:11-15. Or, do you concede there is no such evidence for this jubilus exit from the lake of fire? God bless.
…We’ve been giving you those verses in abundance left and right! You just don’t accept them because they don’t fit your assumed chronological placement in the canon, not even in the canon actually, in the book of Revelation - which itself is interpreted by the rest of Scripture!
“Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes and No are your only options for an answer.”
That is the trick-question, entrapment, equivalency of you insisting that unless we provide as your mobile goal-post demand demands, that our position is defeated. That is dishonesty on your part. Quit it.
We’ve already shown you the evidence.
The whole premise of your argument, Revival, seems to be on par with me asking you the following question;
“Show me where Jesus will return quickly in the Book of Revelation after Chapter 22:21.”
No one gets out, but you believe that all the people who are being tormented beyond our finite minds our praising God in the lake of fire according to your interpretation of Rev 5:13? Need I remind you during the tribulation in Rev 16:8 people were being burned with fire. Did they praise God? Nope, what did they do? They blasphemed the name of God and they repented not to give him glory.
Its not a trick question. Its a simple one that only your pride won’t allow you to answer correctly. Thanks again for the discussion, Lefein, but we seem to be at a road block. God bless.