“Eph.1:22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.”
The church is His body…of those He fills…i.e. believers…in all divisional clubs, whether RC, Baptist, Pentecostal…yes EO, too, even those who preach the “good news” of endless tortures.
Hey, Origen. For the record, the Roman Catholic church - also claims to be, the one true church. After all, they (RC) say…that Christ said to Peter. “Upon this rock, I will build my church.” And the EO claim, they kept the historical theological and traditions - of the church intact. If I agreed FULLY, with either the RC or EO stance - I would join one of them and become a member.
But that doesn’t mean, I can’t borrow some theology from EO. Or some contemplative traditions from RC. Or some health and prosperity emphasize - from Joel Osteen.
And various Protestant bodies …have different theological opinions…on what they think the church is. Just like folks here, by the way.
I have friends who are Roman Catholic. And I have friends, who are Eastern Orthodox. I am on friendly terms - with both churches. And with my friends, who belong to the EO and RC churches. In fact, as an Anglican…aligned with the ACNA…I share more in common, with the RC and EO churches…then I do, with the rest of Protestant churches.
Roman Catholics don’t condemn Orthodox or Protestants. They believe they are in error on issues but they are brothers and sisters in Christ. They are just a separate body.
The Eastern Orthodox hold the same opinion, of Protestants and Roman Catholics. And the Protestants, usually hold the same opinion - of EO and RC churches.
But why? Why can’t you have an infinite number of turtles going down? Doesn’t it make as much sense as an infinite universe in which many believe? Or an infinite quantity of time spent in hell?
First of all, no one is yet in hell. Everyone who has died is dead. They will not be alive again until their resurrection.
Secondly, on what grounds do you suppose that all those who will be in hell will refuse to repent even after millions of years have passed. Will they have lost their free will, simply because they have died and will have been raised?
Do you believe God does not have the ability to correct them, or minister to them in such a way as to lead them to repentance?
It’s based on the fact that God separates the sheep from the goats. Jesus says depart from me. Kolasis means to prune or cut off. And as the Catechism states the chief punishment of hell is eternal separation. When your heart is separated from mercy it hardens. The Bible says God hardens whom He pleases and He has mercy on whom He pleases. It follows logically that when your heart is separated from mercy you get worse not better.
I’m going to join the Catholic church. You have to go through classes though. I haven’t done that yet. One reason I’m becoming Catholic is because they are open to other beliefs. They consider the other bodies in Christianity to be brothers and sisters even though they are a separate body.
Yes, 'kolasis" means to prune or to cut off. But for what purpose? The word was originally used in the sense of pruning plants in order to CORRECT their growth. Later on, it was used figuratively with reference to the correction of the behaviour of children.
Also, since “kolasis” means “correction,” Matt 25:46 proves that “aionios” doesn’t mean “eternal.” For how can you have “eternal correction”? If it were eternal, the correction would never be achieved. No. “aionios” means “lasting” or “enduring.”
I guess that would fit my view of atonement. Aquinas held that at the cross Jesus suffered and bore the punishment for our sins. But this punishment was medicinal punishment. It’s not the same as John Calvin’s penal substitution. That theory holds that God’s wrath was penal only. The Bible tells us that Christ learned obedience through what He suffered. Moreover, we know it was disciplinary is because of Isaiah 53:5 -
The Hebrew word here is musar
musar:
discipline, chastening, correction
The NASB Strongest Exhaustive Concordance
There is no penal element in this word. It’s for disciplinary or corrective purposes. It’s a masculine noun meaning instruction, discipline. It also fits with that scripture in Hebrews:
I guess if I say that it happened at the cross then the corrective discipline is for hell as well. I think there’s also a good case for eternal meaning long lasting correction. Thanks for reminding me about this. It fits with how I see the atonement now. To be consistent I guess I have to accept it.
Eternal means long lasting though. Ages unto the ages means a very long time. It’s more like millions upon millions of years. Even trillions upon trillions.
Okay Paidion I’ve been thinking about this. As long as the punishment is infinitely intense with pain in could last only a few hours. When we disobey God we sin against Him because we are under infinite obligations to obey Him. As Jonathan Edwards puts it:
The mathematics work out the same if we suffer infinitely intense pain for a few hours like Christ did. The wrath is disciplinary in that it corrects but it also punishes. Like the Bible teaches it’s medicinal or disciplinary as it corrects and purifies.
Would be the correct interpretation. The discipline is lasting. Only a few hours but infinite in it’s intensity and strength.