The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Why do UR's change the meaning of "Aionion"?

Romans 16:25-26
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret** since the world began,**

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the** everlasting** God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Aionios means: 1. Having neither beginning nor end. 2. Without end. 3. ages of the world; the times since the beginning of the worlds existence. All of these are obviously used according to the context of the passage.

Contextually verse 25 uses #3 meaning of aionios.
Contextually verse 26 uses # 1 meaning of aionios.

Matt 25:46
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Contextually there is not the slightest indication in the words of Jesus here that the punishment is not coeval with the life. Kolasis “punishment” is used in one other place in the the NT ( 1 John 4:18) and means torment. Therefore verse 46 uses #2 meaning of aionios for both.

I erased this bad example and edited my OP :smiley:

Revival, There are numerous other threads on this particular topic already. What’s the point of starting another one?

I only saw one in the “Discussion negative” section. This topic was hi-jacking another thread so I felt the need for it to be discussed in its proper place.

I believe that the truth is that it is the ECT’r that have mis-translated the greek word to support their theology.

For example:
In his book God’s Methods with Man(New York: Revell,1898), G. Campbell Morgan (scholar, associate of D.L. Moody, and a highly respected expositor of Scripture), said:

Let me say to Bible students that we must be very careful how we use the word “eternity.” We have fallen into great error in our constant use of that word. There is no word in the whole Book of God corresponding with our “eternal,” which, as commonly used among us, means absolutely without end. The strongest Scripture word used with reference to the existence of God, is—“unto the ages of the ages,” which does not literally mean eternally.

I appreciate that but why do you agree when (aionion) is describing God, his life, etc to mean everlasting or eternal, but when the same exact word is used to describe punishment and judgment it does not carry the same everlasting or eternal meaning?

I see how it was hijacking the other thread. But here are just a few of the other threads which discuss the meaning of aionion. It might be worth having a look at those first:
[eis aionas aionon?)
[Aionios CAN'T be translated "eternal" for punishment!!!!!!!!)
["Terms for Eternity: Aiônios & aïdios" talk part 1)
["Terms for Eternity: Aiônios & aïdios" talk part 2)
[More thoughts on aionion, Matt Slick's argument)

Are you serious? He just said that it doesn’t mean eternal (in the sense of infinite time, that is) in regards to God even!

I have an idea of what might possibly be a little more compelling for you: why do people who have NDE’s and meet Jesus say that it’s as if time has ceased to exist or has lost meaning? Why are they never sure how much time has passed, and why does it always seem to them as if much more happened than could possibly fit into the three minutes or so that they were legally dead?

So what you are saying, Justin, is that the translators who are more qualified than you or me should not have used “aionion” to describe God or the life we receive from Him at salvation because it doesn’t mean everlasting or eternal? Did Jesus lie when he said we receive everlasting or eternal (aionion) life when we believe in him? If this “aionion” life is not eternal or everlasting then how long is it?

Only as long as God-life :wink:

Which is?

Revival, how long is an age?


Now when I write those immediately you have thoughts that come to your mind. Both are used as terms for homosexuals, one is not nice, both can be used in a not nice way.

Those words didn’t originally have anything to do with what they mean now.

Gay meant happy. Fag is a pack of matches, properly a bundle of sticks (faggot).

Now you read an old book or listen to older christmas carols and you hear them sing about being gay, and you think wow is this a homosexual christmas song? No thats you using a modern day interpretation of a word that didn’t have that meaning when it was written.

Thats exactly what you and other translators are doing, by continually reading into the words what they think it means. Even if the word meant eternity back in the 1st century, which it really didn’t, their understanding of eternity is very different from ours. It meant something that was long lasting, like oh I don’t know… an age.

In secular writing a wall was called eternal (aionos). The Levite priesthood was eternal, the covenant of circumcision was eternal, a flame was eternal, sodom’s destruction was eternal.

Just like hell originally meant unseen. Roofing tiles are hela, they cover over. Our modern connotation is a place of burning and flames, and torture, with a red guy with a pitch fork laughing because he has stolen all these souls from our impotent god who could not win them over.

As for it referring to God. Ever heard the term Rock of Ages. Plan of the ages. God is a God who works in ages (more than 2)

Eternal life is life in the age. You are so conditioned to think that eternal life is some thing after you die. It is life now. The definition of eternal life is given in the gospel of John. To know God and Christ. Thats not to say it doesn’t extend to the after life. But it is properly life in the age, which began after Christ died and rose again. Eternal life is now. We were dead, and now are alive.

couldn’t put it better, though i can make one small addition to your examples. over here in England, a fag is a cigarette. just to illustrate how culture can also create meaning!
to understand an old word, we must understand what it meant to the people that used it…and not read in thousands of years of progress in philosophy and maths. (maths = English for math :wink: )

Amen to both redhotmagma and corpselight! :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

thanks corpselight, I couldn’t remember if it was a cigarette or matches. I know its a bundle of wood, from wiki.

If you guys go to Google you can find plenty of sites that show how words have changed their meanings over the years. Its pretty interesting. Some words have changed so much that it now means the complete opposite from what it once did. :astonished:

:laughing: is it just me or does UR change the meaning of the word
when it benefits them? Im at work and don’t have time
to respond.

Something with a beginning by definition cannot be eternal.

An eon has a beginning. Eons of eons has a beginning. Eonian has a beginning.

To say that God is eonian does not mean that He had a beginning. It simply means He exists during the ages. It doesn’t mean He didn’t exist before the ages or that He ceases to exist after the ages. It just means He is in existence during the ages.

God is eternal; He has no beginning or end.

If hell is eternal as God is eternal, then hell exists outside of time and space and therefore had no beginning.

If you believe hell is eternal as God is eternal then you must also believe hell has always been (it has no beginning or end) just as God has always been.

Where logic meets a brick wall