The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Why do UR's change the meaning of "Aionion"?

I was in Adam, not anymore. I’m in Christ by faith and I’m no longer a Gentile but a new creature! :smiley:
If everyone was God’s offspring we would not be born without his nature. Why can’t you grasp that, Lefein?

Then perhaps, you ought to be more like your Father…And far less like the Damnationalists.

Kinda like how Adam fell, and Satan too? Kind of like how even Jesus had to resist temptation in the wilderness?

We all are the breath of God. We are all made in his image, his likeness, after his manner; that we have free will’s we abuse does not negate that we are children of God, it only means we are rebellious children.

You still sin…how is it that you, having the nature of God in being born again - still sin! Are you not a child of God? Do you not have his nature? Why therefore do you sin? If being the child of God entails being unable to sin, then you aren’t a child in the least; by reason of the fact that you do sin abundantly, and daily.

Explain to me how God procreates the human race with the sin or spiritual death nature? In order for that to be true God must reach into himself and bring out sin and death and put it into our spirits. That is impossible only spiritual life can come from God!

Jesus is our example of having the life of God and not sinning. If you walk in the spirit you will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. It is a process and does not happen over night. But the more you spiritually mature the more you will walk in the nature of who you become and not sin. :smiley:

The same way he shaped David in iniquity in his mother’s womb. You believe in the theology of genetic original sin it seems. I do not. I believe people fall, and are inclined to fall, due to the perpetuation of sin by the human race as a meta-culture; not by reason of God’s creating man with “defects”, or of man being intrinsically depraved and defective.

I believe the human creature is like a diamond made in the image of God, a diamond covered in the mud of the world that must be cleaned away. The diamond that is the human creature is good, and godly. The mud is not the creature, it is something apart from it, as it is also apart from God.

You still sin though, it doesn’t matter. You still have a sin nature if you sin - that’s that. Is it not?

Revival,

When you resort to making Paul say the dead opposite of what he’s saying to support your theology, it’s clear you’re out of actual arguments to use. He’s very obviously including those he’s talking to in calling them the children of God. He’s very obviously including them in the “all nations of humankind” that God made. Just as you refuse to acknowledge the facts about aionios, you now refuse to acknowledge the text right in front of your face (and many other texts that proclaim God as the Father and Creator of all mankind), just to support a vastly inferior theological system.

Paul called Abraham “our father” in Romans 4:12.

He called the Old Testament prophets “the fathers” in Romans 9:5.

He calls himself the father of the Corinthians in I Corinthians 4:15.

He calls the biological father of the man involved in incest the man’s “father” in I Corinthians 5:1.

He gives instructions to household fathers in Ephesians 6 and Colossians 3.

So Paul would acknowledge that our earthly parents are still our parents. He acknowledged that God is the Father and Maker of all mankind above. Other passages, such as John 1, insist that God created all that exists. This is simple, simple stuff, and if you didn’t learn it as a young Christian, then learn it now before you continue spouting off asinine doctrines that nobody in Scripture would have agreed with. Or you could just continue stopping your ears and using silliness like the idea that God isn’t the Creator of mankind in his fallen state (despite a stack of Scriptures that say otherwise) to prop up the idea that He is, therefore, going to torture most of mankind forever.

Man does not have dual natures. You either have a spiritually alive nature or God’s nature or a sin or spiritually dead nature. When you are born again… God’s nature replaces the sin nature and you are a new creature and no longer in Adam!
Your soul remembers all the pleasures of sin and must be renewed. That is why you sin after being born again with God’s nature. :smiley:

Believe what you want, Snitzel…God’s word won’t change because of your unbelief. :smiley:

Explain to me what you think " There is neither Jew nor Greek, for we are all one in Christ Jesus" means Snitzel. Also what does being a new creature mean?

Sorry, but this made me snort my coffee out my nose :laughing:

I hate to break it to you Revival, but despite your constant complaining about context, you are one of the worst at proof texting and ignoring context that I’ve seen. Galatians 3 is speaking about coming out from the old covenant into the new, how we are no longer under the Law but all may come to be saved. The temple courts are no longer excluded to women, Gentiles etc. It is not saying that you, Revival, are no longer a gentile, any more than it’s saying I’m no longer a woman.

And with regards your comment many posts ago about God not correcting bastards, are not bastards still children of the Father? They are just not legitimate children, having been born the wrong way. Which is why we are reborn as sons of the free woman, not sons of the bond woman. Note: they are still all the offspring of the father.

And just thinking aloud here, but if you cannot be a child of God in any sense because of our ability to sin, how did our father Adam sin? He was certainly a son of God and made perfect, yet he still sinned. You don’t seem to be thinking too deeply about this.

Right, so you have post after post riddled with examples of you mishandling or ignoring the text of sacred scripture because it doesnt agree with your theology, yet you’ve the nerve to tell someone else God’s word doesn’t change because of their unbelief? Since when did you become the oracle of God? You behave as though your interpretations of scripture are the same thing as “God’s Word”. News flash. They’re not.

I would say it is you that the Word will not change for, despite your unbelief. The scriptures will never stop declaring the God whose anger lasts a moment, whose favour lasts a lifetime, who will have all men to be saved, who will be all in all. It won’t stop declaring that despite your unbelief. Despite your insistence that his anger and judgement last forever on most, that will have a few men be saved and that will be all in some things.

While talking about faithful use of the scriptures, what about your use of Revelation? The passage warns about adding or removing to the words of the prophecy of Revelation. It states so specifically. You cannot arbitrarily apply that passage to all books of scripture, whichever canon you use. To apply it in such a manner means many ancient Christian copyists are in trouble. You’re aware I presume that no 2 biblical manuscripts reads identically?

You’re not sorry, Jael. You find it amusing that Lefein has to resort to name calling. Quite sad, actually.

I hate to break it to you but before you try correcting people know what you are actually talking about. It was Galatians 4 not 3. I’m not going to explain to you what Galatians 4 actually meant because you will just reject it like everything else.

No, bastards are not children of the Father or they would be chastised in love like the verse says. read Heb 12:8 again.

Who said you can’t be a child of God in any sense because of our ability to sin? There you go again, not registering what I actually said. I said you can’t be a child of God if you don’t have His nature. Big difference. Just thinking out loud, eh?

Adam sinned just like anyone else sins…he chose to. He chose to believe the devils lie than to believe God’s word. Just because Adam was made perfect it did not take away the ability for him to choose. :wink:

Revival,

Believe what you want, Snitzel…God’s word won’t change because of your unbelief.

Likewise.

Explain to me what you think " There is neither Jew nor Greek, for we are all one in Christ Jesus" means Snitzel. Also what does being a new creature mean?

I’ll tell you what. First, you explain to me what you think, “Neither is there male and female,” means. Does it literally mean there are no more males and females? No? As it’s a clear reference to Genesis (although the KJV says “neither male nor female,” that’s inaccurate; the Greek breaks the pattern by saying, “nor male and female”), perhaps you’d argue that Paul is dissolving the institution of marriage since we’re all the Bride of Christ?

Yet, you still sin. I can only assume you’re not a child of God by virtue of your lack of perfection?

According to your standard; I must conclude it - I must consider you spiritually dead. According to your standard there is no way around it; the conclusion is inevitable.

You’re a Damnationalist, you believe in the doctrine of Eternal Damnation - I’m not calling you names, I’m stating a fact, supported by every post you’ve made here in every incarnation from Aaron37 to current.

As for exhorting you to act like your Father…That is a perfectly godly thing for me to do.

If you’re not a Damnationalist then you don’t, in fact, believe in Eternal H̶e̶l̶l̶ “Lake of Fire Damnation”, you must be an Annihilationist, or a Universalist. If you do believe in Eternal Damnation in Hell - then you are, in fact, a Damnationalist.

Lefein
I don’t believe in a eternal Hell/Hades. Hell/Hades is temporary not eternal. The LOF is an eternal torment damnation.

Lator Gators…have a blessed night. :wink:

So the semantics changed. You’re still a Damnationalist. The sheer fact you believe in “eternal torment damnation” is what makes you a Damnationalist; you’ve merely clarified the terminology of the geography of where the damnation takes place.

Goodnight to you likewise.

I clarified to what** Dad** says in his word, Lefein. Good night and God bless. :wink:

O for pity’s sake. Would you stop playing the victim? Leifin did not call you names, nor would I laugh at name calling. He said you were a damnationalist. And since you believe in eternal damnation, that is a true statement. I don’t recall ‘damnationalist’ being top of the list of rude names to call people anyway.

I do indeed mean Galatians 3:28. … Neither male nor female is found here. I moved on to Galatians 4 because 1: Galatians is a letter, therefore the entire letter is the context, and 2: I assumed you knew enough of the scriptures to know this.

You’re the one that keeps saying unsaved people are absolutely not children of God, then you complain when I ask if you mean children of God in all senses. Ishmael was still a son of Abraham, but not the son of promise. Bare in mind the story of the prodigal son. He was called the son who was lost but is now found. He left his father in the beginning. So at least in the beginning and end, they were considered father and son. There is no indication that he ceased to be his son while in the pig pen. As Christ uses this story to teach the fatherhood of God and how he rejoices over His repentant children, how do you marry this with the idea we are only His son after conversion?

Your comment on Adam isn’t even worth addressing; you keep changing your ground every minute. If you would stop contradicting yourself, we all might get somewhere.

My Father Yahweh, Father of Jesus Christ who is The Word, who came in the flesh, died, buried, and was resurrected for all mankind; says quite differently. He (My Father) is not a Damnationalist, his Word is not Damnationalistic, and his Son (The Word) is not a Damnationalist.

You however, as you’ve confirmed by your own words; are a Damnationalist.

Curious… how old are you Lefein and Jaelsister? :question: